Phil Winks Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Here we go then almost all the goods have arrived so made a start on this. As promised in the main build thread for this model I intend to write this assy up in manual form with all my little tweaks for reference by those who follow when finished this manual will reside ad infiniteum Here (opens in a new window) please feel free to add your 2p worth as this progresses and any alterations to the original that i incorporate will be acknowledge in the final draft which will when finished be in downloadable PDF format Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Day one being a Thurs evening I limited myself to the tailplane assembly. the photo's say most of it just a few alterations to the box contents that in my view will improve the function of the model making things either safer or easier or both 1st the nylon clevises swapped out for metal ones, and pivot conectors added to the servo arms, this mainly for making adjustment easier The hinges are a breeze to put together though I may be tempted to pin these later The servo's are Turnigy S3317M 26g / 3.0kg/cm 0 to 60 degree 0.14s metal gear anolouge these are a tad bigger than the servo hole so enlargement is required care is needed here the timber in this area is nice and solid the holes for the control horn were pre drilled spot on you just need a bright light to spot the back one then use the back plate to find the other 2 Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 The most difficult things I found about building even an ARTF is getting the right components that not only suit the model but ensure it is balanced once completed. This was one of the features I deliberately included in my series of articles, to take away this major unknown. I also built on the experience of over 100 flights with the plane so I understood its strengths and weaknesses. You have opted for larger servos, which has meant enlarging the openings, but there is a bigger problem, weight. The construction of the EP is somewhat unique, though becoming more common. I used 12g metal gear servos and the supplied connectors. They are very easy to adjust at the servo arm end. Remember that simple "direct linkages" such as this don't need the torque of systems that have to drive snakes etc. Modern servos have a great torque anyway. I've had no problems with these servos. Your problem is going to be weight. All that extra weight in the tail 18g per servo, 36g in total will require 2.5 /3 times that weight in the nose, i.e. nearly 100g It is not possible to move the battery forward to counteract this. Edited By Martin Phillips on 09/08/2013 12:04:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 I se what your saying here Martin and we'll see when I get to the balancing stage to be fair I have a slightly heavier motor than you used and from what I can see at present the issue will not be as large as you seem to suggest to start the servo's are 10g heavier than yours so only 20g more not 36 I do understand that this plane has been engineered for lightness however I don't expect it to exceed 5lb prob more likely closer to the top recomended 4.8lb with a clear 521w at 3s and 695w at 4s there will be power to spare at the bottom end and proper "advanced aerobatic trainer" performance at the top end Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I must admit I don't like the rudder/elevator servo position on this plane, putting a hole near the root of the tailplane or fin just seems like a bad idea to me, even if the plane is been tried and tested. I would prefer them on the fuselage sides, or just put them in the fuselage with snakes down which is my favoured method. CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Posted by Concorde Speedbird on 09/08/2013 17:29:04: I must admit I don't like the rudder/elevator servo position on this plane, putting a hole near the root of the tailplane or fin just seems like a bad idea to me, even if the plane is been tried and tested. I would prefer them on the fuselage sides, or just put them in the fuselage with snakes down which is my favoured method. CS I can confirm the wood around the servo mounting points is very solid and I see no issue with strength at all also given that the rudder is quite high above the fuse it maybe that a servo mounted in tn the fuse would have to get round some tight bends only maybe and as you say this is a tried and tested airframe so I sure things will be fine plus I think its been done to facilitate tail plane removal Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I still don't like it, it will be fine but it doesn't seem like the best way to do it. Why is the tailplane removeable too, it isn't a large model. CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Well I'm not going to grump Phil - I'm going say "What a great idea" - we don't often see build blogs of trainers, mores the pity. I'm sure this will be very helpful to a lot of people. Its of the nature of things that these models tend to be assembled by folks that have never done this sort of thing before. So to have an experienced builder like you do a step by step guide is very valuable - well done mate. I'll be following with interest. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 It seems to be designed to pack back in the box mate personally I think with the servo's and linkages attached and obviously protruding it would be a risky exercise with potential for serious hanger rash but a slightly larger box and bubble wrap sleeves would possibly work ok it does mean you could get it in even a Smart car easily lol Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/08/2013 18:19:35: Well I'm not going to grump Phil - I'm going say "What a great idea" - we don't often see build blogs of trainers, mores the pity. I'm sure this will be very helpful to a lot of people. Its of the nature of things that these models tend to be assembled by folks that have never done this sort of thing before. So to have an experienced builder like you do a step by step guide is very valuable - well done mate. I'll be following with interest. BEB Thanks mate I will do my best to compliment Martins wonderfull article on this bird Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I like the build log idea, it is great and as usual Phil is doing an excellent job of it. Some of the design features of the aeroplane are not what I would do, so not a grump, just giving my interpretation of the design of the aeroplane. It is great that Phil is doing a log, and I'm sure many will be inspired to give it a go which is always good. CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 I'm sure Dave wasn't calling you a Grump Concorde to be fair and serious for a minute I totally see where your coming from though I do like the idea of being able to flat pack her even after building even though I probably won't lol Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Hope not, it did seem so though. Keep up the good work. CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Having met Dave at Greenacres concord I seriously believe it was a tounge in cheek comment mate Not much done this evening and tomorrow is spoken for workwise but should have some serious progress sunday especially as the wind looks to be picking up for sunday so not much chance of flying the Tucano though on that subject I've got a 3 axis flight stabilizer coming to try out in this and if its as good as they say will fit ione to the tuc for windy conditions as I really don't like flying a model with so much time invested in it with anything more than gentle winds as my reactions to gusts is poor at best lol Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Well unexpectedly I got some time in the shed this afternoon and will right up a full report tomorrow but right now let me point you at my grumble on the E-Pioneer thread regarding quality. all the mentioned issues will be sorted and I will report how I solve these problems here now read my mumbles lol Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Didn't get anything done yesterday dure to an unscheduled visit from family still today the posty delivered a new toy that I want to trial in this model An orange RX 3 axis flight stabiliser its a dinky little package and if it lives up to the reviews it might be a usefull tool for those less than perfect flying days which are without doubt my greatest flying challenge Only one issue though to be fair I knew about this before buying and it has been addressed by a few on the HK product disscusion page There is no user manual for this beauty looks like another task for me lol. to be fair its fairly self explanatory you connect the input side to the rudder, aileron and elevator channel, then the output to the relevant servo's and as an option there's an aux input which can be from any switched channel to dis-arm/re-arm the unit in flight also this version comes with V Tail and delta options too though whether thats mixing or simply support for those mixes isn't at the min clear some testing and trial and error seems to be the order of the day. All that said for just under a tenner its got to be worth a punt, I hope lol. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 A little more progress during the rare moments I've had free this week some of you watching the photo album will have seen these pictures but I thought I'd share them here too Both wings and the stabiliser and fin are complete and for transport and storage protection I've utilised some foil bubble insulation I had kicking round my garage left from a job I did some time back I've made individual padded envelopes for these items now a little tip when it comes to setting neutral aileron I've marked a line through the wing bolt hole centres on the wing root, this allows you to line a straight edge along it and set the aileron at neutral Also the need for longer servo leads led me to extending the servo leads rather than useing extensions simple enough if your competent at soldering if not then extensions and lead locks are the way to go Below you can see the need for these extensions here the servo lead is at full stretch also I've started on the fuselage nose sect but discovered I'd run out of 12awg silicone wire for the bty deadman plug and 3.5mm bullets for the motor cables so I'm waiting for the post man Now a little gem direct from JP after I requested some info on the design condition re thrust line. it would appear this model wasn't designed with side thrust and if you have any its a manufacturing issue. That said Martin Phillips flys his with 3 degrees of right side thrust and I believe no rudder ofset so we'd all better be prepared to adjust this during testing flights, its an easy ish fix, if when its test flown a lot of right rudder trim is required then dis-mounting the motor and remounting with shims between the left side of the mount and the mounting box will sort the issue. More on this subject when I get to test flights. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Oh and I just had to put this quick vid of the wing servo being exercised after fitting I will have to reduce the mechanical limits as you can see quite a lot of movement on these turnigy servo's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Romping along Phil - I love the wing bags, very professional! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Hi Dave to be honest I'm feeling a little frustrated at not getting any time on her last weekend however family visits come 1st lol still this weekends been promised to me so hopefully the postie arrives and the nose sect can be fitted out then its down to main undercarriage and setting up the radio gear, about 6hrs in total to go I reckon depending on how easily I get the esc mounted in the bowels of that nose section and the fun I have with the deadman plug. It really is a neccesity with the bty bay in such close proximity to the prop and being under the model Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 If like me you build 5 they get very easy.I stil have unused parts in my shed ,loved the model and Im still enjoying your build thread.My onl whoopsie was on the forth model I gave full throttle to take off and the motor flew 10 feet as the bulkhead came out, Very easy repair and soon in the air again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Thanks Stephen when it comes to the motor mount box I'm toying with the idea of bolting it in instead of glueing allowing me to remove it if I need to swap the esc which looks like being inserted through the hole behind the motor box. Yes the HK 70A esc is so big thats the easy way in with it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I had my ECU fitted above the battery I remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Hi Stephen that's where I'm fitting mine it is a fiddly job getting in there to secure it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Winks Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Well despite parcel force not working saturday and so not delivering my 12 awg silicone cable for the esc/deadman plug I did get some work done I've gone down the route of bolting the motor mount box on and painted the motor and battery bay matt black just for aesthetic reasons Also I've swapped the nylon bolts that fix the 2 fuselage sections together for metal 5mm bolts and captive metal nuts. 2 reasons for this one I'm aware the thumb turn style bolts can be an issue to replace so this gives me a full spare set for the wings, and I don't believe the nylon ones are needed as break points in the fuselage. all this has got me to the point where I can test balance her and guess what? she comes out spot on with the battery slightly forward of the very back of the bty bay which does mean that if I upgrade from 3s to 4s I'll prob have to add a little weight at the tail Now the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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