Devcad and its related software packages

[Andy.I]

I've been looking at CAD systems for modelling and I've found some interesting information on here. At the moment I'm favouring Devcad for two good reasons: it's produced specifically for model engineers and it's recommended by people who seem to know what they're talking about.

However, the more I read about it and it's related software products, the more questions I have, and I would be grateful if people on here could clarify things for me please.

I want to be able to:

- create my own 3D model from which components can be extracted, and possibly to perform other 3D functions such as Bill of Materials, clash detection, mass properties etc.

- scan an existing plan, trace it and geometrically clean it.

- modify the plan, by for example, producing a 50% enlargement and then change material thicknesses..

- produce DXF files of components which I can then get lasercut.

This isn't by any means an exhaustive list of requirements but hopefully it will give those people who are familiar with CAD an idea of what I can see myself wanting to do. I don't mind paying for what I perceive to be relatively moderate prices for what Devcad offers.

I don't actually see the need to produce toolpaths or G-Code because I don't own CNC machines, and intend to leave this to the likes of SLEC, who can use DXF files. Therefore I don't see the need for any CAM extensions which means that the Devcad Pro version should suffice - can anybody confirm this please?

There are two packages called Devfus and Devwing which appear to me to be 3D - is this correct?

Looking further, there is something called Profili which appears to be something to do with airofoils and wings but I don't quite understand how this fits in with the other packages - can anybody explain please?

Thank you in advance for any pearls of wisdom anybody might be inclined to cast my way.

[Andy Green]

Hi Andy

I use Stefans products namely DevCad, DevFus & just bought DevWing. They are 2D drawing pakages, but devFus and DevWing do allow viewing in 3D.

There are differences in the way the programs work. DevCad is a full CAD program (2D), and you will need CAD skills to use it. That said I'm no CAD expert and I get decent results.

DevFus & DevWing are wizard driven, in that you don't actually do any drawing, you follow the wizard and input your parameters.

IE in Devcad you would draw your spars, In DevWing you inout the size and position and they get drawn for you.

If you are familiar with Compufoil 3D its very similar.

I like the freedom of CAD but the wizard approach is also useful.

DevCad does have a useful feature in that you can import a background image and trace it, there are auto trace options but I tend to manually trace.

I also love Isiplot - this app allow you to import any image file and scale it then print it to any printer, along with stitching marks.

I wrote this some time ago explains in more detail.

Have you also seen this CAD course it uses TurboCad but its easy to follow along with DevCad.

Andy

[StarLoc FiveStar Adhesives]

I use Profili to draw basic wing plans, and export the rib patterns, then load it into the cad pack to make the rest of the plan, Profili is a wing designer , great for ribs

The best free cad pack I have found is DraftSight by dassault systems , its just like autocad but a bit easier to use

[Andy.I]

Hi Andy

I used to be very familiar with a number of 2D and 3D CAD/CAM systems although I haven't used CAD for some years. I know enough to appreciate what they offer and to realise I have a lot to relearn. So, the CAD course is something I will work through - thank you.

I've already downloaded DevCad and started to play with it and I have to say that it's not the most intuitive of interfaces, although I've seen worse. The import and trace feature is interesting and it demonstrates to you how inaccurate and distorted paper-drawn plans can be. At the moment I've got problems with how it displays on my 27" widescreen monitor, which is limiting my evaluatlon.

Are DevFus and DevWing stand-alone programs or do you need load DevCad first? From what I've read it appears to me that the DevFus and DevWing's wizards use parametric input to simplify construction but I don't understand how they can be 2D yet give 3D visualisation - are you saying that you can't design a tapered wing by defining its root rib, tip rib, total length and rib spacing and the program then generates the profile of each of the intermediate ribs - if it can then surely it is actually 3D?

Andy

[Andy Green]

DevFus and DevWing are stand alone separate apps. And as you say they use parametric input (I prefer my wizard driven) so you don't actually draw.

You can design a wing with the parameters as you say, and its rendered in 3D, but you cant create 3D objects and export them to my knowledge so to my thinking its not a 3D CAD package. Symatics I'm sure.

Have you email Stefan (The programmer) and asked him directly.

Andy

[RedBaron]

17/02/2014 CADing is stirring in my brain again. I have not been satisfied by the aero-modelling support in the CAD programs that I have used to date. Odd comments / reviews do turn up in the magazines but none of these tell the whole tale. So I have been trying to learn, from scratch, what is there to help us. I could not find anywhere a simple summary of what I wanted to know, so as always I had to do it myself. Below is what I have learnt this morning about CAD products for aeromodellers.

Comment:

The dev family of applications were developed with the co-operation of the Profili project. I am not quite sure what that means but suspect that it means that the airfoil functions in the dev programs are powered by Profili. See below for information on Profili. Also I think that if you buy a dev product you do not need to buy Profili. Profili is a product of the devCad business.

Most of the information below was gleaned by cutting and pasting from a number of sources, any opinions implied are not mine (yet). The cost of these programs did not seem too bad to me considering the work that has gone into them. However it does seem that ones needs to think carefully about ones requirements before jumping in. The decision process may be eased as most seem to allow trial downloads.

devCad Three versions: **LINK**

devCad LE (Learning Edition) is a 2D full integrated Cad and Cam application. This software is the entry level of the main application DevCad. It was designed to help you learn more about the Cad applications and it has an very easy to use interface with many features. With this software you can get multi view interface (you can open more views on same document).

devCad Pro is the full featured Cad application. It includes all the functions of devCad LE, the same interface and commands, but add all what is required to make a full featured 2D Cad application.

devCad Cam Pro is a full integrated Cad/Cam system. It includes all the functions of devCad Pro, the same interface and commands, but adds all what is required to make a powerful Cam application for 3 axis CNC milling machines . The devCad Team developed new 'smart' technologies to improve the user's work.

devWing three versions:

devWing LE Using devWing LE you can draw in a very easy way a simple ribbed Wing and print its parts. The LE version manages 1 wing panel and the wing tip. The Wing plan can be drawn using a raster image or a DXF file as a reference, and complex shapes are managed. Sheetings, leading edge, trailing edge, D-Box, many types of spars and lightenings holes can be included.

devWIng Using devWing you can draw in a very easy way a complex ribbed Wing and print or export to DXF/DC1 its parts. Using devWing you can create multiple panels, and every panel can have different shape, airfoils, dihedral and washout parameters. Vertical and angled ribs, geodetic ribs, sheetings, leading edge, trailing edge, D-Box, many types of spars and spar wizards, decks, aileron slots and lightenings holes can be included.

devWing Cam is the most featured version of devWing. It offers all the features of devWing and adds CNC-CAM functions, to let you to create in a few minutes the right GCode cutting paths for your CNC milling machine.

devFus three versions:

devFus is an innovative application for drawing fuselages and other similar parts. Very complex shapes can be created, not only simple circular or squared section as other applications do. The application is easy to use and no Cad skills are required. devFus includes all the print and export functions, so devCad is not required.

devFus Cam is the devFus version you need if you have a 3 axys CNC milling machine.

All the features of devFus are included. Includes all the functions to manage the Cam Project, to have the machining preview and to create the right GCode, so devCad Cam Pro is not required here. Includes a wizard to create a Cam Project for every fuselage Project. A Nesting function allow you to place the parts to cut on one or more tables (plywood foils for example) , to avoid to waste material. Labels can be engraved on every part, and bridges applied to the cutting path

devFus Foam, the new application to draw and cut foam fuselages. Using DevFus Cam you can create in a very simple way a fuselage drawing. The Project Wizard will drive you to draw the fuselage using a step by step approach. To draw the fuselage Side and Top view you can for example adjust the Outlines to follow a scanned image of the fuselage:

[RedBaron]

Profili three versions:

Profili base version is the entry level version of the Profili family. It includes the most used functions for a hobbyist modeller, going to build rather simple airplane models. A full collection of airfoils is included, and you can print and export to DXF simple ribs, loft of ribs and foam cutting templates. Some functions to create, modify, import and analyse airfoils are also included. The database has more than 2,200 airfoils with precomputed aerodynamic characteristics, which really saves time in making airfoil comparisons. The user's ability to easily change the airfoils slightly (or even extremely) has been made effortless. The program will then compute the new aerodynamics resulting from your changes. It is interesting to watch the computations take place; you gain a "feel" for how the pressures are distributed over and under the airfoil.

Profili XT This is the intermediate version of the application Profili. It includes all the functions of Profili, and adds:

- Printing and DXF exporting from the Wing panel feature.

- Three more functions to generate new airfoils.

Profili 2 Professional The full featured version of Profili. Profili Pro is the full featured version of the Profili family. It includes all the functions of Profili XT, and adds:

- creation of cutting files for 3 axys CNC milling machines

- creation of cutting files for 4 axys CNC foam cutting machines

- creation of STL files of wing panel molds

- a full featured series of airfoil analysis functions

- new functions to modify and improve airfoils performance

There does appear to be talk about and assembly program that will join wings and fuselage together.

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

I use DevFus CAM, DevWing CAm and Profili2 Pro for my design and layup work. The 3D modelling feature is very useful and the creation side of it (once you get used to it) is very easy to use. But I do find the software very unstable, It can crash or freeze at any moment, so saving as you go is advisable.

A feature to bring the wings and fuz together would be very useful, but not essential. The other downsides to it, you cannot include a fin or tailplane in the design. Wing fillets etc cannot be built into the design as these effect ratios of other components (Stefano's words not mine).

Worth the money?...Yes, Easy to use?...Yes, A complete perfect solution?...Not yet but as the software develops it should get near.

If you have any questions regarding these software packages, don't hesitate to ask.

Just a couple of pics to show what I have done with it...

cheers Dylan

[RedBaron]

Presumably the parts that you can't do would be drawn in devCAD?

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

I personally would use TurbCAD as I don't have devCAD, but yes

[Andy Green]

I've used DevCad for years now on and off, but was disappointed to see that my version (V2 - I did upgrade from V1), is now not being developed further, and I have been asked to pay 55 euros to upgrade to V3 to get any further upgrades.

I did email Stefan and was told that there was 2 months of work in the upgrade that had to be paid for. Seriously looking now at another CAD option.

Maybe I'm just so used to the free upgrades we get these days.

Andy

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

Is that just DevCAD? or DevFus and DevWing as well?

[Andy Green]

Just DevCad but it does make you wonder about the pricing structure. Don't get me wrong DevCad is a great little program. Just a bit upset about being asked to pay for an upgrade. My V2 still works fine so no need to upgrade.

Andy

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

Yes it does, I certainly don't want to have to pay for an update that just gets rid of the original bugs. If it becomes more powerfull or includes new tools, then fair enough I don't mind paying a bit for them, but as I am using 3 of his packages that could get very expensive.

[Andy Green]

From memory (I cant find the upgrade details) there are some added export functions to make it compatible with AutoCad. 55 euros is a lot for that. But the worrying part from the email says only V3 will have improvements and bug fixes.

Andy

[Andy Green]

Here is whats new.

A

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

bug fix and minor upgrades to versions are free of charge only if a new version (major) do you have to pay an upgrade fee. thats the same with TCAD and AutoCAD as well, but 55 euros is a bit much

[Andy.I]

I started this thread but I must confess to having not looked at it for a while! The reason is that I made a decision and I've been happily using the package I have chosen.

Having trawled through a number of programmes, both those recommended and many others, I initially settled on TurboCAD because it seemed to offer what I wanted, people recommended it and I had also used it a long time ago. However, my trial copy just would not execute and all attempts to get support were ignored so I abandoned it. I believe this to be quite fortuitous because I then discovered PunchCAD's ViaCAD 2D/3D.

http://www.punchcad.com/p-27-viacad-2d3d-v9.aspx

What attracted me initially was the user interface, which, while not following current conventions, was a revelation - and I say this as somebody who specialised in CAD/CAM/CAE at college many years ago. While it enables me to import, trace and clean up geometry very easily, what in my mind makes it outstanding is that it can define geometry using conic sections which are applied extensively in aerodynamics. One would normally pay four figures for a CAD package with this facility, while I paid around fifty quid!

ViaCAD allows me to use 3D boolean operations so that I can merge complex components and then virtually subtract them from each other so that the intersections become voids. This allows you to laser cut the parts which are then guaranteed fit together like a 3D jigsaw. You can define aerofoil sections using conics, or import them from specialist packages such as DevWing or Profili, and virtually build a wing without any problem.

I have come across some limitations which I am prepared to accept:

1. Layer and colour definition and management are tricky. This tends to be a common theme with 2D/3D packages.

2. DXF importing can be problematic. This is a problem with many systems because DXF definitions are continually upgraded with time and the standards are either not rigidly defined or very difficult to control. I solved this problem by using a demo version of QCAD and redefining DXFs which could then be imported into ViaCAD.

3. You can't "unbend" a component that has been created in 3D. For example, if you design a fuselage with sides created by flat sheet bent around formers you can't unbend the sides so as to give you the true profile to cut from balsa sheet. You can buy an upgrade to do this but it's very expensive. My workaround in the example above, of designing a fuselage, is to virtually build it without actually bending the sides. It's not optimal, but it works.

4. I haven't found out how to model wing washout yet. It may indeed be possible but it would be complex. So far I haven't needed it and I'm not sure if I will.

To summarise, I'm not claiming that ViaCAD is the solution to every modeller's problem, and I'm not claiming that it's the best out there, but what I will claim is that it does almost everything I decided I need and much, much more, is extremely easy to use and for around 50 quid it's an absolute bargain.

Edited By Andy.I on 22/03/2014 06:55:03