Pilot-RC Extra 330SC 88" 50cc

[Adrian Smith 1]

Just looking in from the Northern Territory in Oz where the temperature is 40c! Well Ben you are looking good to go I must say. Like you I put some cushioning on the spats. I used rubber grommets between the leg and spat. This seems to work quite well on all my models. Hopefully you will get to maiden soon. I am sure it will be a success given your attention to detail. I know I should not wish my time away but I am looking forward to getting home at the end of January to get flying again!

[Ben H]

Sounds like your in the right place for winter Adrian! No shortage of flying days there I bet!

I'm thinking of a maiden on Saturday, the forecast is for light winds and sun so all being well....

The fuel tank and switches arrived today. Stuck the tank down with some wide adhesive Velcro, putting an additional small strip on the wing tube to protect it from vibration where it makes contact.

With the JR switches, I soldered my own 22awg input leads on with a deans connector to go to the packs. I prefer this method rather than cutting and splicing, or using too many joiners. Then added more of my favourite braided sleeving!

I also sleeved the satellite receiver extensions and put one vertically in the decking, the other across the width down on the "floor" in the tail.

Finally for today, a blob of hot glue in the horizontal stabs to keep the servo wire away from the control horn.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Lot of attention to the small details Ben, like your style

John

[Ben H]

Thanks John, having seen the attention to detail you have been putting into your Ballerina build, that's a fine complement! I'm a firm believer that attention to the small things makes for a nice flying and reliable model.

Well, the weather is looking cold but good for a maiden tomorrow. I had the afternoon off so managed to complete the radio setup. I've gone with the book settings of 12 degrees elevator and ailerons on low rates, 40 degrees elevator and 30 degrees aileron on high rates. Rudder is 40 and 45 degrees. I don't like much expo on low or high rates, but because of the radius that the control arm follows, the movement is not linear. So I found 10% expo on low made for linear movement (to counteract the mechanical expo due to the control horn radius), and about 30% expo on high (because the control horn is moving further and further away from a linear movement as it gets towards the end of its travel). Does that make sense? I'm not sure I've explained it very clearly!?!

I did some wire management with cable ties, and checked all the fastners. Prop bolts re-checked and all three batteries had a discharge test and re charge.

I decided to run a tank of fuel through, so hopefully no supprises tomorrow. By the end of the tank, which was split into four shorter heat cycles, the DLE was giving me a peak rpm of 1840 and reliable idle at 1620 ish. Here is a short video of it running.. **LINK**

Fingers crossed for tomorrow....

[Ben H]

What a fantastic flying day! The wind sock has been horizontal for most of the last two months, but today it hang straight down, not a drop of wind!

So, the maiden flight!..... No dramas, just two clicks of right and two clicks of up saw it flying straight and true. The cg at 1/8" behind the tube is pretty good, requiring just a hair of forward stick when inverted. The low rates were still a bit high for my liking, so reduced them all by 10%. This is better but still needs less rudder throw on low as it'll knife edge on half stick. Knife edge is effortless, very little coupling to roll, 5% opposite aileron sorted that out, and no coupling to pitch. On high rates it'll knife edge loop with ease. Vertical performance is... wow!...not only unlimited but is seems to accelerate! It's a rocket ship on the DLE 55ra. Didn't push this too much on the new engine though. The stall is a non event, settling into a harrier with the tiniest wing rock until the nose comes up into a full stall. Very easy to control. Hover is steady at about 40% throttle. The high alpha stuff was done way up at a safe height which makes it harder but until I have confidence in engine reliability at all attitudes, I'd prefer to play it safe. Most of the time was spent doing some basic pattern stuff which it is very smooth and precise at, but again the rudder throw needs reducing, that huge surface is very powerful! Spin can be flattened out nicely with some opposite aileron and a little power and it does the best pop tops I've seen on any model. Landings are as easy as it gets, floating down very gently at low speed. I didn't experience the sudden dropping that Adrian noticed, maybe cg or all up weight? Adrian, I'd be interested to know how moving your cg back helps with this.

Down sides, just the landing gear to fuse fairings, like Adrian, mine cracked from taxiing in grass! Mine were free to move on the fuse but still both cracked! In my opinion they are not fit for purpose, being so thin and cheap plastic, very brittle. I'll write to pilot RC and request some more. Next time I'll fill them with either silicone or expanding foam, to give them some core strength.

6 flights under my belt with her today and I think this one is a keeper! There's a bit of video in the following link, with harrier and hovering from 6:55min **LINK**

And if you want a laugh, here's some footage of my edge 540 doing some low torque rolls and taking an unplanned visit to terra firma! **LINK**

[Ben H]

[Bryan Burton]

Congratulations on your maiden Ben. It's nice to find out that a model flys so well when you have the same one to maiden. When I eventually get to do my maiden, I will go with the same C of G as you, it sounds spot on. I think my 330 will be heavy com paired to yours, due to the ZDZ up front, about 470 g more !! But hopefully will still fly well. Not good about the U/C fairings, I thought by fixing them to the leg only with canopy glue they may be ok, but like you I don't think they are up to the job. It will be interesting to see what reply you get from Pilot.

Bryan

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Can't ask for a better maiden and weather than that Ben, great job

Nice open field you lads have, if we get down low, trees have an habit of appearing out of nowhere.

John

[Ben H]

Thanks Bryan, I'm sure yours will fly just fine on that ZDZ. If I were you I'd look at filling the fairings with something before you fly it. I'll let you know the response from Pilot RC, might go through Macgreggor as they supplied it and have been very helpful so far.

Thanks John, it was perfect weather for a change. The field is a cracking site, and is also a full size strip, hence the lack of trees!

[Adrian Smith 1]

Well done Ben, all the preparation paid off huh? pleased to see it went so well. Despite the great time I am having in Oz I was looking very wistfully at your flying field and a busy pits area. Can't wait to get back and fly again at the end of this month. I will report back when I have move the batteries back a tad. Good idea to write to Pilot RC about the fairings I think I should too then perhaps they will get the message.

[Ben H]

Thanks Adrian, it certainly wouldn't hurt if more people write to pilot RC with their opinions of the lg fairings. I'll let you know the response when I hear back. The weather has been colder but less windy, so hopefully it'll be good when you get back! Got out this morning for five tanks of fuel. Started fine tuning the rates and expo to get it feeling how I like it. I'm thinking about decals now to give it an individual look.

[Adrian Smith 1]

Ben, since I have been back 10 days ago (sadly no flying though) I have set about contacting Pilot-RC and the UK distributor Macgregor Industries about the weak fairings. I initially e-mailed Pilot-RC and eventually a chap called Tony President replied asking for photos of the offending parts. However, he suggested it would be better to go via the UK connection. Given than Chinese New Year has stopped all work for the month of February it's unsurprising not much can be done from there as yet.

These are the two images I e-mailed to him. I bought the plane through Ladbroke Hobbies in Southam and I duly e-mailed my findings to them. No response for nearly a week on that one. Given that Ladbrokes arranged delivery direct from Macgregor (how does that work then?) I sent the same e-mail plus pics to Macgregor's service dept. asking at least for a replacement or their view on the whole problem. Not heard yet but as soon as I get any replies I will post them here. Failing any response the phone will be the next step. Like the the most recent photos by the way.

[Ben H]

Hi Adrian, they are sending me replacements in their next shipment, after their new year. I'll pm you...

[Bryan Burton]

A belated welcome back Adrian, the fairings look bad !! I am not able to get mine off to fill them, as Ben suggested, the canopy glue has stuck them very well. They will break if I try and remove them, so not sure what to do at this point, but I am 100% sure they will break on the first outing. I have some time to think about this, as the rain has not stopped for the last two months, and both flying sites are still waterlogged. Haven't been flying since the end of last November. I will be watching with interest to see what the outcome will be re: the fairings, and what you both do to resolve the problem. I think this is a design fault with the model and the manufacturer needs to redesign this area.

The only good thing to come out of not being able to go flying is, it allows me more time to carry on with my 5 cylinder radial build. When it is completed I will need to build an airframe to put it in, so it will be back to good old balsa bashing.

Bryan.

[Adrian Smith 1]

Thanks Bryan. Hope you had a good break too. The great thing about this hobby is even when the weather is bad there is always something to do in the workshop. Sounds like you have real engineering project on the go. Probably what I will do assuming I can get hold of some more fairings eventually is foam fill them in situ for strength although I am no too optimistic it will work. If I can get the original ones off I will try and repair them with carbon fibre tape internally and finish the job externally with some Isopon filler and a fresh coat of paint. Given that here all the weather we are getting at the moment is gales, gales followed by rain then more gales so good time to do it. 😩

[Adrian Smith 1]

Some positive news. Macgregor emailed me a reply to say that they will send a replacement set of fairings when they get the next delivery from Pilot-RC which will be April/May time who have promised to supply more. Additionally it was suggested that attaching the fairings to the fuz is not ideal, rather to fill the fairing with flexible glue like silicone to add strength leaving a small gap between fuz and fairing, and this method will fix the fairing to the u/c leg. Can't say fairer than that so I am pleased with the response and service.

[Ben H]

Glad to hear you got the same positive response as I did Adrian. For the filling I initially thought of expanding foam, but I think it'd be too rigid. I think silicone would do it, although a little heavy maybe a smear of Vaseline on the rubber where it meets the fuse would help promote movement there too?.

I'm hoping for some flying time Thursday at long last, it's been nothing but wet and gales here too!

[Adrian Smith 1]

Like you Ben I am looking to fly my Extra 330 on Thursday as the weather looks promising. I will be playing around with the battery position to see if the flying characteristics alter by much so I will report back on that now I have built a movable battery tray. I have also ordered a couple of 23x8 props as the 24x8s I have been using might be a bit too big for the performance I want. I did manage to get out this morning to fly at short notice as the weather was better than forecast. I flew my old glow powered Capiche 140 EX fitted with on OS 160 FX. I needed some stick time before flying my biggies as it's been over a month since I flew, so today was ideal for that.

Edited By Adrian Smith 1 on 09/02/2016 18:54:25

[Adrian Smith 1]

Had a good session with the Extra 330SC this morning. It was a bit nippy but nevertheless I am glad to report the GT60 started with out problem. Of the rack of three batteries placed at the front of the hatch, I moved one (5 3/4 oz) towards the rear of the hatch to see what happens. The flight characteristics on the first 10 minute flight seemed marginally better but as the wind picked up a bit (10mph+) I found the landing far too floaty and I had to work hard to get her down into the semblance of a decent landing. I decided to move this battery back to its original position for the next 10 minute flight. I can't say I noticed much difference in flight as on both occasions she flew inverted with no stick inputs. However, the landing was completely controlled into the breeze. Based on my original maiden flight the in air performance was much better with almost unlimited verticals and no effort in the bunts or loops. I decided to check the engine RPM after the 3rd flight and found as I have now had an hour's flying time the engine has loosened up noticeably. The only other thing I have done is change the petrol/oil mix to 40/1 from 30/1 at the time of the first run. So I am assuming these two things have improved flying performance enough to make me notice. Indeed the RPM at full chat has picked up another 100-200 RPM. I think I am now going to enjoy flying the Extra in future!

[Ben H]

Glad you had a good flying session Adrian. It sounds like you might want a bit more weight forward rather than aft, if inverted doesn't require any down at all.. How is it in a 45° up line, rolled to inverted? Should hold its line for a few seconds then gradually pitch to the canopy. Mine actually holds its line indefinitely, but still requires a little forward stick when inverted - I like a rearward cg though as I do 3D as well as IMAC. It sounds like your cg is further aft than mine, which may not be ideal for sport flying.. All in my opinion obviously, and don't want to tell you how to suck eggs etc....

Did you try the 23x8? I'd be interested to know your rpm with the OS...

I had some great flying this morning also, 5 X 15min flights, and zero wind until midday! High rates were increased about 10% with more expo, this helped with knife edge spins and tumbles. When breaking it down to put in the car, I noticed some loose coverin around the outer aileron hinge on one of the wings.. The hinge is broken! Guys, check your hinges!! I'm lucky not to have lost an aileron or part of it! For the benefit of other readers, these come pre glued at the factory. It looks like the hinge has broken out of the aileron, but the plastic has fractured, leaving most of it still glued in, and only 6-7mm of plastic attached to the hinge joint!

I'm not sure what to do here.. Not easy to change the hinge, or replace with a Robart type pin, without cutting all the others. Any suggestions? I wonder if this should be warranty from MacGreggors as it seems to be a manufacturing defect??

On the bright side, I put a dash in which gives it a nice scale look. Just need to fix the hinge now as I'm flying at the Yeovilton Model Air Show on the 20th!

Edited By Ben H on 11/02/2016 17:21:48

[Adrian Smith 1]

Blimey Ben, that was a lucky escape. Best I go and check mine tomorrow. I have ordered a couple of 23x8 props but they have not arrived yet. Full chat on 24x8 is 6100-6300 as measured this morning. So I should do a lot better than that eventually. Will post the results when I have tried it. Based on what you say I now tend to agree with you about the CoG on mine. I will probably leave things as they are until I have changed the prop as I don't like to change more than one variable at a time. I tend to do mostly IMAC flying and leave the out and out 3D to the real experts, but one of these days I will get into it.

In the past when a hinge has given up the ghost I have just cut the whole working surface off, levelled the original hinge areas and cut new slots for my preferred hinges. Bit of a pain really but you can't take chances with these beasts and where one has failed the next one to it may have been weakened.........

[Adrian Smith 1]

Sparkling morning of flying today despite being cold. Tested out the Extra with a 23x8 XOAR wooden prop. The prop has helped to transform the performance and she flies as quick as I hoped and expected. As promised Ben the reading at full chat was a steady 6500-6600 RPM which is much more suited to this plane. Tick over was rock steady at 1900RPM. I still think I need to add a couple of ounces to the nose as inverted the nose needs no stick input to keep it level, in fact there is nose up tendency without stick input with the elevator. Thus far my working surface hinges are holding up, but I will keep an eye out. One other job I have done is reinforce the two lower floor stringers below and behind the cockpit, as lifting the plane caused one to split. Not had that happen before with any plane. Guess they were a rubbish piece of wood.

[Adrian Smith 1]

Got my replacement undercarriage cuffs today Ben. Steve Roberts at Macgregor Industries has been very helpful in this regard. Did you get yours too? I will probably fill them with silicone to see if that's any better. My Extra is still going strong in fact it is my plane of choice on blustery days as it holds the line very well in such conditions, particularly on landing in gusty conditions.

[Ben H]

Yes mine came yesterday Adrian, again, excellent service and very helpful. I haven't yet decided what to fill them with. I think silicone might work.. Let me know how you get on

[Adrian Smith 1]

Before fitting the cuffs and fixing with silicone sealant I decided to reinforce the inner surfaces with carbon fibre tape with epoxy resin.

It was a bit fiddly but here is the initial fix before trimming.

When that has dried then on to the next stage later this week.