Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted September 9, 2021 Author Share Posted September 9, 2021 Hi guys, decision time. So, been looking at the damage to the Excelsior for some time, and I seems I have two courses of action. First would be to just glue it back together as best I can and carry on flying. Trouble with that is the crash broke the wing front former into a couple of bits. Can't see being able to repair that 'in situ' so it would have to be replaced. Added to that is the ease with which sections of the internal doubler broke away without any signs of glue. Would always be thinking whether the next heavy landing would cause even more damage. Have to say in this crash the wing suffered no damage at all, apart from bent u/c legs, which I am used to. No telling if I would be so lucky next time. Second course, and the one I think I should take, is to rebuild the front end completely. Means the model will be in the repair shop for a while, but should be more reliable when it comes out. First question: I will be pulling the motor off, and then it will be laid up for a while. Is there something I should put in it to prevent corrosion while it is standing idle? Second question: I would still like a 70's style turnaround model in the fleet, but this time I will be doing what I should have done in the first place, build my own. Couple of kits available which fit the bill, like the Crescent Bullet or Kosmo 3 from Probuild. However, having decided to build my own, might be better still starting from plans, so I have complete control over the whole process. A quick root through my plan collection produced some candidates. Front runners at the moment are a Chilli Wind, by Mike Delacole. Mentioned many times on the forum, and looks a straightforward build, but there is an issue. Also, the Rocket by Terry Anderson. Little bit bigger than the Wind at 62" span, but otherwise similar. Wouldn't mind either, anyone any thoughts? I am tempted to go with a built up wing for either. First of all that would be lighter, and probably stronger. Besides, have you seen the price of foam wings these days? (cheapskate, moi?) However, both these models have a foam tail as well, so not too sure how to do a built up version of that. Suggestions would be welcome. That's where I stand at the moment, but everything's flexible. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said: Is there something I should put in it to prevent corrosion while it is standing idle? Get it hot. While running at full chat, pull the carb feed line so it runs dry. Bag it, store it somewhere dry (indoors?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Jeffrey Cottrell 2 said: Wouldn't mind either, anyone any thoughts? Chilli Wind is an excellent design - what is the issue with it? Both that (scaled up a bit) and the Rocket are on my bucket list for a 60 size simple pattern build one day. Foam wings expensive? My opinion, the difference between a bought foam wing, and a wood build (price of balsa etc etc), is not significant compared to the total cost of a model. Me being me, I would also not bother with a wing section on the tailplane either, a flat plate is easy to build right and rig right, if you can tell the difference in the air from a sectioned tailplane then you are a better pilot than I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Collinson Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Jeff, There are half a dozen Rockets at my club following a semi-mass build before lockdown and the designer being a member. Mine awaits paint. They fly very well. Bill Manley did a batch of wings and tails and probably has the templates still (Bill Kits). You must have a lot more free time than I have to contemplate built up wings. Interestingly, the said designer, El Tel, had a go with my repaired small Excelsior .. 166?.. last weekend and with a little tweaking, proclaimed it to be a better flier than his Rocket. Flies on a Saito 100, as indeed do the Rockets, mostly. We don't fly 2 stroke glows. BTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 Hi Guys, thanks Nigel Running it dry is not a good idea. After my , ahem, unplanned arrival, part of the side broke away, where it attaches to the firewall. Leaves me not knowing how strong the rest of it is. Could see running the motor causing it to fly across the field, without the model attached. Not good. What I had in mind was some sort of fluid I could squirt into the carb and slosh around inside. I read that 3 in 1 is not a great idea because it causes more corrosion, but something similar would do the trick. When I said an issue with the Wind, I did not mean a fault. In fact you put your finger on it. If I'm doing a built up wing, seems odd to use a foam tailplane. The Smart Move uses a flat plate, and that is bigger than the Wind, so that would be my way to go. Also, on the wing, would you think I would lose any strength by using cap strips rear of the spars, rather than fully sheeted? Bruce Interested in the smaller Excelsior being a better flyer than the Rocket. Can't imagine my flying skills being sufficient to tell the difference, but my big (188) Excelsior will definitely be flying again, even if it takes a while. Meanwhile, same couple of questions about it. Would a built up wing with capstrips be strong enough. and could I use a flat plate tailplane? Either of these models will be electric, so no motor issues, but the Rocket is slightly in the lead because it's a bit bigger. Choice still fluid at the moment, so all opinions welcome. Cheers Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Mount your motor on some 3/4 ply, screw that to a workmate, that should restrain the beast for a quick run. If you want a fluid, I've used gearbox oil for storing engines in the past. But you'd want to make sure all the methanol and water is gone from the engine first anyway, which means getting it hot and running dry. Cap strips and d box type wing on a chilli would be plenty strong. Mine has a flat tail plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Have you looked at the Challenger by Steve burgess? It was updated and is now on outerzone as 'aussie challenger Similar vein to challenger and rocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted September 18, 2021 Author Share Posted September 18, 2021 Hi Guys, question for the chemists out there. Posted about what I should use to protect the engine during storage. Nigel suggested running the engine dry then using gear oil as an after run. This I duly did and seems to have gone well, however met someone at the field who said do not use gear oil as it contains sulphur which can affect any bronze components (big and little ends). Anybody else run into this and can shed any light. Or am I just being paranoid? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 Did not know that. You can get after run oil from model technics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 Just done a quick bit of googling. Synchromesh rings are bronze? Perhaps it is thus hypoid oil that needs avoiding ie diff oil... Gearbox oil being ok for boxes with bronze parts in should be ok for our purpose? Would like a knowledgeable person to confirm though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Collinson Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Jeff, Rocket designer, Terry Anderson, is a clubmate who previously competed at national level in F3A and still flies UKCAA flyins with Pick 5 and 7 comps. So do I and my burning ambition is to finish ahead of last in Pick 5. Happened once, Buckminster last year. Field of 1 unfortunately. It was he who proclaimed the smaller Excelsior a better flier, I would not be able to make that distinction at my level of flying. Terry does slow and 8 point rolls at 30’. Including with my Excelsior. I suspect that if properly trimmed there is a gnat’s whisker between them and they all seem to fly as if on rails, one reason why I like them. inadvertent para break there. Comparing several DSM planes with close cousins with built up wings, a Suprafly and a Curare eg, the latter float on for ages on landing and are less able to fly big patterns, but then neither will my Saphir, veneered foam on 8 S electickery. Deluxe after run oil, surely? Interesting that there’s a current thread on their Balsaloc equivalent for sticking loose film and trim where someone evidently had a poor outcome. All I can say is that everything of theirs has performed Ronseal for me. Two Excelsiors currently in the hangar having engine refits, Yamada 140 with perished vibration mounts and a Saito with plug problems of my own doing. Incidentally, Peter Vidgeon who advertises on the BMFA site did a repair to the plug threads, checked the valves and bench ran the Saito in 2 days and wanted £35 inc post back. I cannot recommend him too highly. BTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted September 19, 2021 Author Share Posted September 19, 2021 Hi Bruce, thanks. Must admit with 20:20 hindsight, I should have used a proper after-run. Ho hum, live and learn. Anyway, jury's still out on Rocket Vs Chilli Wind. Did chop out a couple of ply ribs for the Wind, so I could use sandwich method for the ribs. Basic structure is easy, but I would like to use wing mounted u/c so I'm getting clear in my mind how I want to fix those. Very much work in progress. Can't seem to find Peter Vidgeon on the BMFA site. Could you point me towards him. Got a job he might be able to help me out with. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Cottrell 2 Posted September 25, 2021 Author Share Posted September 25, 2021 On 19/09/2021 at 12:24, Bruce Collinson said: Incidentally, Peter Vidgeon who advertises on the BMFA site did a repair to the plug threads, checked the valves and bench ran the Saito in 2 days and wanted £35 inc post back. I cannot recommend him too highly. Hi Bruce Can second your recommendation to Peter. While I had the motor down, I sent the crankcase to him to fit new bearings. This he did very well, but he also did a couple of extra jobs I hadn't asked for. Total time, including shipping, less that a week, and cost a very reasonable £36. Wouldn't hesitate to use him again Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Collinson Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Sorry Jeff, wasn’t ignoring you. Been busy. Glad you found him. He’s a proper bloke. Hoping to test the small Excelsior tomorrow. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.