RCM&E Pans

[Terence Lynock]

It would be a big help if the plans descriptions were a bit more informative and the date of the plan given as at present apart from basic model dimensions there is nothing much to go on, three plans for the Me 109 but what Mk? one of them doesnt even have an illustration so if you are looking for a particular version of the 109 you are on a loser, same goes for the Spifire plans and many others.

I am looking for a decent set of plans for a 109 G-2 / G-6/ K but cant tell what the plans are in the RCM&E plans list apart from one is definitely a E- version with square wingtips,

regards,           Terry

[Ben Mullins]

maybe the plans wernt designed specifically scale. Just the general shape, for you to add your own detail too if you wished, that being the reason for no mark #'s. Although i do agree the info on the plans is very vague. Personally I would like to see a list of woods needed on the plan aswell as a little profile. i.e. engine size, recommended radio etc. I know some plans have this allready but not all.

[IanN]

I think this is a valid point which is true not only for RCM&E but also other plans suppliers - Traplet, M.A.N., the most excellent X-List, etc.

We're lucky enough in this internet age to have access to plans available from way back through the decades right up to the present day. However that does make choice difficult and I've bought plans myself on a "suck it and see" basis, only to fined them not to be what I was hoping for. Would be very nice indeed to have some standardised data - model, mk, size, weight, wing loading, rec motor, etc. However, unless someone's prepared to go through the whole back catalogue its hard to see how that can happen.

Plus, the data changes over time. A model designed in the 60s which really needed a .61 of that era to get off the ground offers far more choices today. Lighter radio gear, and lighter and more powerful engines etc considerably extend the envelope

[Terence Lynock]

Hi Ian,

               agreed it would take time to update the listings but maybe more plans would be sold if the info were provided and a decent picture, if you are looking for a car you dont just buy a Ford and hope it is the model you want or a suit hoping it will fit.

Most of us know if it is described as a Mk9 Spit at 1/12th scale and 36'' approx wingspan we can judge the weight and power unit required be it I/C or electric, just the basic info is what I would like to see but when the model plan is just described as a 'Spitfire'  then it could be anything,

regards,     Terry

[Phil 9]

is there a link to a list of RCM&E plans

[Nigel Wyatt]

Hi Phil

Here is the link it's in My Hobby store Plans

Nigel

[Phil 9]

Thanks Nigel  I have nearly finised a build from the free plan in nov RCM&E. but i need a more simple electric poered trainer

[Tim Mackey]

They dont get any better ( as a tool for the job in hand ) than THIS

[Phil 9]

I already have a multiplex easy star that is almost the same. but i need something that can take off and land on its own undercarrage (as required for BMFA A certificate) and preferably with aelerons

[Phil 9]

ps i wish i knew there was such a device as a v tail mixer would have been useful for my current build. but i converted it to a standard rudder tail

[Terence Lynock]

ps i wish i knew there was such a device as a v tail mixer

I get mine off eBay for about four quid each, they work OK but now I have delved the depths of my Futaba EX6 and found out how to do it with the transmitter I dont need the hardware type, they are good for aileron mixing though - I am about to scrap a jet-style model that I built and didnt like when it was finished which uses a mixer for the ailerons, they worked fine but this model never flew.

I have given over building stuff because it caught my interest after building about ten models in a year, I am scrapping those that I dont like or no longer have interest in and salvaging all the gear, then I will build no more than two a year starting with one of Tony's designs for a FW Ta 154 but with a built-up wing and do a proper job on it instead of a 'that will do'.

regards,           Terry

[Tim Mackey]

I am not sure that a hand launch model will preclude you from the A certificate ?

[Phil 9]

Ebay is good for small electronic items. I got my servos for a pound each the same ones from a uk supplier were about £3 each. Terry it does sound like its time for you to go for quality on your builds.  and maybe an intricate scale model will take up your building time

[Ben Mullins]

You've gotta have a U/C to pass the 'A' now. Otherwise as people down at the field put it 'Its just electric soaring'

[Phil 9]

im still toying with the idea of adding U/C to my east star and a brushless motor to give it the extra power for a take off. but im not sure this will be except-able for the "A" test.

[andy watson]

I've just bought plans for a Ju87 Stuka off hobby store- except they were labelled Ju88.

I agree with the OP- the more info the better, otherwise more people will decide building isn't worth the hassle and buy another chinese ARTF.

[Terence Lynock]

Hi Andy,

              are you looking for Ju 88 plans? have a nice set of three sheets for the A-4 at 2184mm span, bought them but too large a scale for me.

Nicely detailed printed in Germany and designed by Klaus Nietzer, also have plans for a 12 foot span Me 264 and a FW 190 A-4 at 1/4 scale, all by MT-Bauplan,

regards,   Terry

P.S RCM&E plans list has a Ju 81, pity it never existed and the photo is of a 87.....

[A.A. Barry]

Terry, if you have built 8/10 models in 08, either you have a lot of time on your hands, or, which I can envisage, that they have been "just stuck together". A previous comment also suggested, "more time an each model would be benefical".

Phil B , There is A very simple trainer free plan in one of the issues this year,"bushwacker, Bushranger, something like that. Timbo will help, easy to build, electric adapable.

As for the Info on plans,

 MOST scale plans are designed for the builders who have an "insight" into what is required, to produce the final outcome. If one wants to enter into the relems of "scale" then be prepared to spend a lot of hours (1000s) to achieve the desired results, every conceivable of building "brains" it takes. You need to "search" for every piece of info avaliable about THAT particular aircraft, and concider the weight factor, wing span and power required. THe little intricacys of each "strut, pitot head,  undercarrige movements" is all time consuming, and  you will not find ALL of this in a published plan, you actually have to do some homework yourself.

 Tony.N refers to, in the "special" about the "hurricane", this is a builders model, it is about as informative as you will get. If built as per the articale, I am sure that it is a winner. I have actually scaled it up by 22% and it looks great.

This takes me to another query, about what E.P. (electric power), can suits what "span, or model weight", yes, I have read all the forums, and it still leaves me in a quandery, the only way I have been to get a grip on the issue, is to "note" what prop is required, then I have a look a the model. There are so many "ratings" advertised, none of which makes sence to a 59 yr old, so if someone can list a relevant I.C to E.P guide list. it would help all of us..................   Barry . AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL  

[Nigel Wyatt]

Terry 

I may be interested in your 1/4 scale FW190 plans.  If you swith on your PM we could chat.

Kind Regards

Nigel

[Myron Beaumont]

Barry

Try getting to grips with it at 65 !. I do understand quite a lot  but not exactly comfortable with it especially as everything seems to get updated  or on the other hand become outdated on such a frequent basis ie month by month .One reason this year I'm going all 4 st  .'til someone invents fusion power driving maybe a steam jet turbine where the fuel (water) will once again be in a small plastic bottle  No sophisticated dodgy electronic parts .

THERE ! Told you I was going to get grumpier for 2009

 When you say scaled up by 22 % do you mean by wing area or span (linear measure measurement ) & if so what size engine ? I like the plan also & am going to scale it up onto  my sheets of wrapping paper I got for Xmas from 'er indoors  Thinking of getting the 58 RCV  I think its called  for starters

[Phil 9]

Hi barry I did look at the bushwhacker it is available as a plan and a kit but it is only 3Ch and i would prefer a 4Ch. as for IC to EP guide list I have not found one either. Like you the way I find a comparison is via the prop size there are a few guides listing prop size to motor size and similar guides for IC engines. But as a simple and reliable conversion I dont think you can go wrong by using the prop size as a guide.

If anyone else has an idea on this subject i would like to hear it also

[Myron Beaumont]

PHIL  It 's apparently not just the parameters/criteria you mention but also the rpm (dictated by the KV of the motor- And of course the voltage of the battery supply ).& how often/how long you run at a high rpm ( near the limit of the ESC ! ) Yes before someone tells me - I know that the ESC has less work to do at high rpm! These are a few of the reasons I like & am used to what you can't do much wrong to an engine  If you over prop it it will run at the speed you want -no damage done ! Perfect for war birds .In other words -just like a motor car -you instinctivley know whats going on .When to ease off /when to check the plug(s) /etc etc  & how much fuel is in your tank . Say no more - I have tried (at considerable cost) to try 'lekky stuff  but am as yet unconvinced . It's simply not user friendly to me ( & doesn't sound right either )  Call me old fashioned if you like but I know I'm not the only one

[Phil 9]

electric motors have the characteristic of trying to run at its natural speed and adding a oversize prop will have the effect of drawing more current from the battery. Current draw is  the most inportant factor of the motor circuit. most quaility motors will run on 6v - 22v range. the rpm Kv rating of the motor will dictate the prop size the motor will happily run. for example.

ELECTRIC MOTOR PROP CHART

Motor size                Propeller selection

3000 – 5000Kv            2-4” EDF’s

2200 – 2500Kv            5 x 5

2200Kv                      6 x 4

1900Kv                       7 x 4

1300Kv                         8 x 4

1100Kv                       9 x 6

1000Kv                       10 x 3.8

900Kv                         11 x 3.8

so it is important the prop on the motor is of thr correct range. too small a prop the motor can not run fast enough.

[Tim Mackey]

Trying to simply produce a chart to directly equate an electric motor with an IC motor is simply not feasible, there are just too many variables on both the IC engine and electric motor. Without wanting to enter a heated discussion, please remember that understanding and utilizing IC engines fully is not as simple as Myron and others have you believe either. What about the variety of cc, cylinder count, plug types, fuel types, lubrication systems, bore, strokelength, tuned pipes, fuel pressure systems, plumbing, valve clearances, RPM useable powerband etc etc!

And another thing, stick too large a prop on an IC engine and watch it labour itself to death as it overheats and fails to produce any usable RPM.

Before you argue that it does not have to be that complicated -  then I will remind you that neither does electric.  If you dont want to bother trying to understand it all, then just ask one of several electric flight specialists for the kit. John Emms at Puffin models for instance will instantly tell you exactly what powertrain to use in pretty well any model you care to describe.

Please dont try to compare, and especiially please dont try and convince people that electric motor selection is vastly harder than IC - it is merely a case of understanding the few basic parameters....familiarity etc.  If some of the old barnstormer petrol heads had been brought up in the electric age, then they would understand it just as easily as the leccy brigade.

Several "easy peesy" type data charts have been done, and most leccy articles will refer to at least one or two. Just try these for starters.....very simplistic but ball park "rules"

1) Aim for 100 watts per Lb of AUW

2) Small props on high Kv inrunners -  Large props on Low Kv Outrunners

If you simply MUST try to convert - then use the "double up and zero" system below.

IC 20 size? - double up the 20 = 40   then add a zero = 400 ( watts ) motor

IC 50 size? - again..... 50 X 2= 100 add the zero = 1000 Watts.

There...now that aint too hard is it

PS not sure I agree with Phil's statement that "too small a prop and the motor cant run fast enough"

AND of course, one of the beauties of lecccy motors is that they CAN be very flexible with prop sizes, if you change the voltage accordingly. I have a 700 Kv outrunner which will happily swing a 10" prop fast on say an 8 cell batttery, but can also do a very good job of swinging a 16"+  prop nice and quietly and efficiently at a lovely slow scale RPM, by simply changing the cell count down to 4.

Show me the IC engine that can do that with equal efficiency.

[Myron Beaumont]

Phil

Thanks for reply - Will peruse tomorrow -But coming back to my original comment  Its very critical isn't it ?  I seem to have acquired with . - in spite of the fact I have a wide selection of scratch built models I'm prepared to modify from their ic power . Computer has gone berserk =sorry