Orion-E electric glider build blog

[David E]

Thanks Chris. I have an 1800W hair dryer that I can try, but I'm not sure whether it will help. Suppose it can't hurt. I'll try a spot of my wife's acetone nail varnish remover and see if that does the trick, otherwise next time I pop into a chemist I'll get some acetone.

[David E]

Well... haven't made much progress for a while as I've been so busy, and been having fun learning to fly my new Honey Bee FP. However, today I've had a little time to get somewhere with the Orion...

 

I haven't glued the tail on yet, I was just resting everything in place to get a feel for the C of G. Looks like it's not too far off despite the lightweight motor, so I glued the servo mounts in place as specified on the plan, rather than moving them forwards.

 

I know it isn't a perfectly smooth curve from the top hatch through to the prop spinner, but I've spent enough hours already on sanding it and I think it's good enough. Covering this is going to be a nightmare!

 

The little holes are to allow the use of allen keys to loosen the motor mount (I'm amazed that this actually ended up lining up and works really well!

 

The motor mount is screwed to this firewall, which I've glued directly onto the front former. The motor I'm using is rear mount only and the Arion is designed for a front mount brushed motor, so I had to think up something. Seems to have come together ok so far.

 

I finally found the Sellotape Crystal Clear (Diamond) so I've done the control surface hinges now. I think the gap's a bit bigger on the rudder than it should be, but hopefully it won't cause any trouble...

 

I'm trying to decide what combo of orange and blue to cover the fuselage with. Any suggestions?

[Big Bandit]

Hi David,

 

I tend to use one color to cover the whole thing and the other as trim.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Phil 9]

As bandit says just using one colour for the fuse would look neat and keep things simple. (use the blue colour)

[Bob Moore]

I just got my Orion kit today and also only just discovered this build blog!  I'm hoping I haven't bitten off more than I can chew.  (Wish I'd seen the blog before! I do like a challenge though and I'm sure if and when I do finish this, I'll be dead chuffed.)  On reading the build instructions, I see the comments 'this model is intended for builders with previous experience, therefore the instructions only deal with the main areas of construction etc.'  Glad I found this blog as having only ever built an epp foam Peppi trainer, and artf Wot 4, I wouldn't really have much of a clue

This is my first build where one has to properly 'build' wings and fusi, etc.

 

My idea was  to build it without the power conversion and maybe add that later. (Apparently the only difference between this and the pure soaring version is a bit of extra reinforcement.)

A couple of small questions before I start though.

 

First , what adhesive would be best?  My supplier says use pva. But I think I saw mention of superglue (cyno?) I guess the latter is quicker to go off?

Motor-wise, the plans say you must decide before starting whether you will go for geared or direct drive. I assume it would be the latter, and brushless?

Any advice would be HUGELY welcome!

[David E]

Well, I've nearly finished! Can't post pics as am on my mobile, will try to do that soon. Just need to sort hatch fixing and internal layout for right c of g. Bob, don't worry, if you're at all handy I doubt you'll have any problems. like me, you can always ask on here if you aren't sure. You'll need a good flat building board you can stick pins in that's long enough for the centre wing section, if you don't already. Glue wise, I used different glued in different places and really it doesn't matter too much. PVA is good for most things but it takes ages to dry which is a pain for some jobs like sheeting the front half of the wings. CA has the advantage that it can be put on slot together parts after they have been put together and the fast set time means quicker progress, especially for people like me with limited time available. Building without motor would require balast and some kind of nose fairing or quite a modification to the fuselage. To be honest it's easier to put a motor in. It's much easier if you don't need to stick with an unsuitable motor as I did! Use a front-mounting outrunner and it should be straightforward. Using a lower kv motor and bigger prop than mine would be advisable. You can certainly construct the wing before you decide about the motor.

[David E]

Oh, and I used araldite (epoxy resin) for joints where high strength and/or gap filling was needed such as sticking the tail to the fuselage.

Edited By David E on 25/02/2010 08:10:02

[Phil Brooks]

Bought one of these recently and added it to my list of projects to be completed by the end of the decade (should I live that long).  Just found this thread, thanks everyone for all the info.  I'm still getting my head round the niceties of electric flight, and trying to decide on a suitable power train.  David E's choice was obviously constrained by competition rules, and was not ideal.  Obviously a larger battery would help with balance and maximum current supply problems, as well as providing longer flight times, but how large is large? Norman, could you provide a little more information on the gear you bought from Galaxy models?  Sounds like the ideal price/performance combination.  

[Sheldon Holy]

I guess one could say your power setup may be slightly lacking in power, but it'll be a perfect Sunday evening model, and the power should be fine as long as you treat the motor as just sometheing to make it climb. All the rest of the time should be motor off.

 

Nice build!

 

Sheldon

[Sheldon Holy]

Oh, a good way to cheat on covering the nose, would to have say the nose just painted in sanding sealer, and have the back portion of the fuselage covered. An even better way. is to have the covering stop at the hard to cover nose block, and paint the nose block. Just 2 mins with a brush should take care of that. Most model shops sell those little Humbrol paint cans, and they are what i use.

 

Sheldon

[Sheldon Holy]

And lastly, Phil, i have found, when experimenting with a clubmate's Easyglider, that you get much longer with the smallest possible battery. You use the motor for less time as it climbs far quicker, plus that puts less load on the motor so you can have a smaller motor, yet lighter. Dave's setup should be nice.

 

Sheldon

[Norman Wyatt]

Phil

 

I have gone for the cheapest options of power/performance and relied on John at Galaxy to provide suitable components.

 

A simple '400 can' type motor and a low price suitable ESC, £3.50 for a prop, has really kept the costs down. 

 

Being a novice builder I had to rely on advice from someone who knows more than I do and John was very helpful, he was also keen to keep his prices very attractive. 

I have yet to fly it, but the weather is beginning to improve so the day may not be too far away.

 

Not sure how much you have built so far, but it is not that difficult for a first build, in fact it is a very good place to start.  Thoroughly enjoyed the build.

 

Norman

[Phil Brooks]

Thanks for that Norman, when I've cleared the three other projects on the board I'll make a start! Good luck with the maiden.

 

 

:Posted by sheldon holy on 25/02/2010 16:22:55

And lastly, Phil, i have found, when experimenting with a clubmate's Easyglider, that you get much longer with the smallest possible battery. You use the motor for less time as it climbs far quicker, plus that puts less load on the motor so you can have a smaller motor, yet lighter. Dave's setup should be nice.

 

Yes Sheldon, appreciate that, but earlier in the thread Dave had said that he would have to fit ballast because his battery and motor had to conform to club competition regulations and were lighter than the original design allowed for.  If there's a choice between adding several ounces of lead or a larger battery I'll go for the battery.

[Andy Gates]

Love the guys at Galaxy, but I have to watch what I do when I visit otherwise I would buy most of the shop!

 

For film covering of the nose, if you are following the instructions from the film covering companies then you will be covering the whole fuselage in 4 pieces.

 

Bottom strip, full length

Top strip, 2 pieces, infront of the wing and behind thew wing.

2 side pieces full length.

 

If you work from front to back, add the upper and lower pieces first.

As you get to the nose section, iron a line down the centre of the film onto the structure to hold the film in place. Then slowly work your way forwards stretching the film slightly until you have the film a little over half way round the curves.

Now trim the film in a gentle curve to give the appearance of a striaght line.

Do the same with the side pieces trimming the film so ther is a slight overlap.

 

A little practice and this will give a reasonably invisible overlapped edge.

[Sheldon Holy]

Posted by Phil Brooks on 25/02/2010 19:32:43:

Thanks for that Norman, when I've cleared the three other projects on the board I'll make a start! Good luck with the maiden.

 

 

:Posted by sheldon holy on 25/02/2010 16:22:55

And lastly, Phil, i have found, when experimenting with a clubmate's Easyglider, that you get much longer with the smallest possible battery. You use the motor for less time as it climbs far quicker, plus that puts less load on the motor so you can have a smaller motor, yet lighter. Dave's setup should be nice.

 

Yes Sheldon, appreciate that, but earlier in the thread Dave had said that he would have to fit ballast because his battery and motor had to conform to club competition regulations and were lighter than the original design allowed for.  If there's a choice between adding several ounces of lead or a larger battery I'll go for the battery.

 I stand corrected! I too would go for the battery, but i guess non-competition flying i'd use the small battery, but that depends on weather etc...

 

 

Sheldon

[David E]

Here are the pics of it almost completed:

 

Covering finally finished. I had to cheat a bit on the nose as Fibafilm doesn't seem to stretch round double curves too well.

 

 

 

2x Turnigy TG9 servos. I cut the arms out of the circular ones provided as I needed them to be just the right length and take a slightly larger hole for the clevices. I went for 3mm Carbon tube instead of the 3mm dowel supplied for rubber band support as it was a lot more circular and thus fitted the holes!

 

 

It was necessary to modify the rudder horn quite a bit, as I had been warned on another forum, as otherwise it will foul the rear of the fuselage. I don't know whether putting the rudder hinge on the other side would avoid this or not.

Edited By David E on 25/02/2010 20:49:23

[David E]

Posted by Bob Moore on 24/02/2010 23:36:04:

First , what adhesive would be best?  My supplier says use pva. But I think I saw mention of superglue (cyno?) I guess the latter is quicker to go off?

Motor-wise, the plans say you must decide before starting whether you will go for geared or direct drive. I assume it would be the latter, and brushless?

Any advice would be HUGELY welcome!

 Oh, and Bob, check out this month's RCM&E, it has an article on building from plans which has a tonne of info you'll find useful, including choice of adhesives for different tasks. Obviously the bits about transferring shapes onto sheeting don't apply as this kit is already CNC cut, but the rest is very relevant.

Edited By David E on 25/02/2010 20:52:18

[Bob Moore]

David that looks great!

 

Thanks for all your useful advice , I started (kind of ) my build today. Bought  a 2' x 3' bit of MDF £4 and a bit of plasterboard to go on top, £2.   (My local DIY shop said that the special board mentioned in other posts on modelling boards was £45 a sheet. )  Stuck the plan down and prepared the wing centre section.  Just need some modelling pins, couldn't find them in my home town!

I'm making sure I read carefully through the instructions (which makes a change for me!)

 

I'm not quite sure what mistake you had made perhaps?  in your post of 26/10/2009 09 19 59,  Step 2.. Could you please explain further. (The first bit I'm making is the centre wing!)

 

My other models are all IC powered and I know nowt about leccy stuff.  Interesting to read about the pitfalls of motor and battery choice.  Norman's motor and esc sound like good value? Is that £9 99 for motor and esc a misprint?  I looked at their web site and couldn't see anything that low priced.. Similarly 400 cans (400 brushless motor?) on some sites seem about £40  .  My Google searches re the leccy stuff come up with lots of confusing formulas and recommendations.  I'm not fussed about super climb rates, I just want to keep it simple and preferably cheap as poss. I know I have a steep learning curve to catch up with some of the electric stuff!

 

I'll be interested to hear how well your set up works.  Also be pleased to here details of Norman's motor and esc ?

 

Wish me luck.

Edited By Bob Moore on 25/02/2010 22:53:16

Edited By Bob Moore on 25/02/2010 22:54:55

Edited By Bob Moore on 25/02/2010 22:56:10

Edited By Bob Moore on 25/02/2010 23:02:50

[Norman Wyatt]

Bob

 

I also saw adverts for '400's at £40 and was told by members that I must have been mistaken.  These motors must surely be very high spec.

 

The '400'  that I bought is the very basic 'can' motor, the bottom rung of elec motors, but it is all I need and can afford.  On the bench the motor appears to have power enough to drag the plane across the table, surely in the air it should have no trouble at all.  I only want it to fly, performance is not important. 

 

From memory I think the motor and ESC cost around a tenner, £3.50 for a prop.  The most expensive thing was the battery.  I am sure other LHS offer good value, but I will give Galaxy first option on my money because I have had good advice from them and as I said before John keeps his prices keen and attractive.

 

I never envy anyone for being able to spend more money than I can on this fascinating hobby.  I enjoyed the build.  I have a Multiplex Fox in the middle of converting to r/c, just got hooked from reading of other people making these tiny planes fly r/c.  But, again it is as cheap as possible, and I have to wait until I have a few pounds to spare.

 

Norman.

 

 

 

[David E]

Thanks Bob,

 

The mistake I referred to in that post was that I glued the dihedral brace (the seagull shaped ply piece for want of a clearer explanation) level with the bottom of the main spar as the instructions showed. Actually it would be better to glue it 1.5mm up from the bottom so that when it comes to sheeting the bottom of the wing, you don't have to cut into the sheeting to go around it:

 

 You can see from this photo that there is room to move it up towards the centreline of the wing.

 

If I was doing it again, I'd space the diehdral brace 1.5mm away from the bottom with the same width sheeting that would e going under it eventually anyway.

If that's still not clear, do say, and I'll make a diagram.

 

£40 for a speed 400 motor? Someone's having a laugh!

[David E]

On the subject of selecting motors, props and batteries, yes, it is a bit of a pain. Don't bother with the formulae as you never get provided with all the data needed to work this out anyway!

 

The aim is to select a prop that provides enough resistance to the air that it loads the motor to near (but not too near) it's maximum current at the voltage you are using. The size and pitch of the prop you'll need depend on the kv of the motor and its current rating. Choosing a battery is just a case of getting one that can provide enough current for the prop/motor combo without straining it. (Try to stay around half of the "C" rating of the battery, for good life)

 

Copying someone else's successful set-up is a good way to go!

 

Generally large props are more efficient, and you need a lower kv rated motor for these.

[Sheldon Holy]

That looks brilliant!

 

Should fly well too. Will show up well, which is certainly a big bonus! It's good that you didn't use translucent film, as against any sort of light you wouldnt be able to tell whick way up it is! Well, you would when you are digging the fuse out of the hill!

 

Sheldon

[Bob Moore]

Thanks Norman, I think I've got the idea now.

Bought my pins today so no excuse not to start!

 

Re the 400 brushless motor, must have a gold case

 

This one is £49!  400 motor  someone is having a laugh

[Bob Moore]

Not intending to hijack your build blog David, but I made a start on my centre wing this evening.  Using pva to glue bits together.

As a newbie to this type of building can you confirm please that the smallest bits of ply supplied (two small rectangles) are for the panel under the centre brace.  (They say 1.5 mm it's nearer 2mm?)  I guess it's logical that the long bits are for the leading edge etc.

Sorry if it's a dumb question, but I was surprised when the instructions said they are written assuming experience!

 

Here's my chilled pic...  (for some reason the post has turned it thru 90 degs?)

The long strip of wood under the leading edge is just for temp support while drying, of course.

 

Edited By Bob Moore on 26/02/2010 21:34:43

Edited By Bob Moore on 26/02/2010 21:37:06

Edited By Bob Moore on 26/02/2010 21:45:43

Edited By Bob Moore on 26/02/2010 21:48:52

Edited By Bob Moore on 26/02/2010 21:54:13

[Bob Moore]

It's gone very quiet on here???

Have you had a chance to maiden your lovely Orion yet?

 

I've started my own build blog for my Orion, as I didn't want to hijack this thread

And I just posted my idea for a motor and prop there, and in case it's missed, would be pleased if you'd take a look there too

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=37702#757987

My wing is built and I need to work out what engine, etc., before starting the fusi.

 

ta v much!