Nicholas Booth

Hi Ken    Thanks for the video, I wish I had mine on film as I think I would have seen a lot more information. In your flight you can see the right wing lift off before the left and would have point me more towards the thrust angles. Did he use any flaps do you know. I will check my angles out as a matter of priority first I think.     Nick

Trust angles were a long story. When build the kit it called for 6.5Degrees down thrust and 4 degree outward thrust for each motor. I had a long email exchange with Top Flite re the angles and they stated that the down thrust was required, but the side thrust was there to stabilize the plane in case of a motor loss. As it was built electric, and the chances of a normal styl engine out were not there, I removed the side thrust (had seen it done on other forums and flown without issues).   Again, not sure what to expect with the side thrust and what 4degrees outward on each motor may give.

I know I checked the wing both before and after the crash so don't expect the wing to have any issues. as for the motors, I couldn't get a positive read on the rpm's so used the rough speed which seemed to show within 150rpm of each other and also their voltage pull was less than 0.1 of an amp, but thinking now there may still be a difference in actual pull of the motor which will be worth checking. I will create some sort of harness to check each motors actual pull. Hopefully I will get some freetime this week to start checking the bits out. I went to spray the nose back up to green today but found I had not sealed my air canister properly.......off to the shops again tomorrow.

Whilst I wouldn't class myself an expert, I have flown a large number of planes over the last 7-8 years including a few really tail heavy and some nose heavy kits. The problem is that I have never had an issue keeping the plane on the ground before, which I attempted to do the second flight. I expected the tail to lift but not for the right wing to drop both times. I am pretty sure that whilst in the right circumstance it might have been saveable the second flight, it dropped its wing so fast I couldn't catch it. What I didn't state in my first post, was that I did a stall test on the first flight to see what it would do after the bad take off but it came to an almost stop and just droppped its nose. not what I expected nor the other flyers at the field. I think that moving the CoG is a first attempt and may also remove some of the pitch on the blades to increase the speed before take off......

it did on the second flight, but you know what it is like when flying a plane for the first time, I had thought about moving the CoG forward a tad as part of the rebuild. I just wanted to make sure there was nothing else I could be missing

Hi all    I have had abreak from flying for a while but am about to ressurect my Top Flite DC3 that I crashed ealry last year. It only had 2 flights, I will try to list both flights for an idea of what happened.   The kit was built from a Top Flite standard kit and converted to electric whilst doing so. The power supplied from the motors is far greater than the plane would ever need to fly. I have put 3 bladed, variable pitch props due to ground clearance.   First flight: It taxis fine without issue, no ground looping an felt nice and stable, due to our field layout their was a fairly strong side wind from right to left, but nothing extreme. I accelerated fairly quickly getting her to 3/4 power at which point she pretty much jumped into the air (45-55degrees) at about 15 feet she dropped the right wing to an almost knife edge position, I managed to use full rudder (I had left lots of rudder in just in case) and brought her back to the straight and level. after which she flew ok but placed a lot of down in the elevator to keep her level. I was quite nervous when flying her but could not remember much else, except on landing I pulled up elevator and had a fairly feeble response with a stronger than wanted bounce on the floor. no damage.   Second flight: Not tempting fate I didn't fly again the same day, but a few weeks later. I had put the ealrier issues down to not keeping her in the ground long enough although the speed had been really fast. This time the wind was from left to right and about the same speed. Knowing that I had since trimmed the plane, I expected a different take of and applied gentle throttle, holding up elevator until the tail rose and then tried to use down to keep her on the ground without hitting the props on thr ground. This time she took off at 1/3 throttle and there was nothing with the controls I could do to keep her on the ground. This time she dropped the same right wing, caught the ground and cartwheeled. The elevator felt a little bit twitchy.   I did not use flaps on either take off, but tested them first flight, the first setting raised the nose by about 5degrees, the second about 15 degrees.   I am just finishing the repairs and am looking for help in what could be the cause and maybe a fix or two   If you can help then please do as I would like to fly the plane soon and right now expect it to do the same thing again unless I make changes     Nick

you seemed to miss me out of the last couple of draws, maybe this one then NIck

Count me in please, this one looks nice

Hi Gary   Sorry for the dealy in replying to you but work has got in the way of a lot of things lately.  Firstly, I have built a few Top Flite kits Sea Fury and DC3, and have the Spitfire winging its way to me as we speak. I also have in the loft somewhere the mustang as part of my 'i'll buy it cos the credit card is empty and build it when I am ready ' projects All have built quite nicely with reasonable quality wood ( a Little heavy ) but fine for an avaerage plane. Also, if you muck up a section, Top Flite are excellent at sending individual sheets of pre cut parts. As for retracts, they are not too hard to fit and whilst they can add some weight they can also improve the flying ability of some planes. The manuals are very well written, but be sure you follow the correct section for either with or without retracts. I fly off of a fairly bumpy green also and for the best part they are ok, pot holes can cause instant dismantling. A good friend of mine uses an inline fuse so that if the retracts lock up then they do not drain the battery, where as I always go for a second battery pack. As for the choice, I love the look of wheels going up and down, will you ????  NIck

The kit has about 6 degrees of down thrust built in so don't want to mess with that too much. I will rebuild the front and try moving the batteries forward a tad and check the C of G again. Cheers guys

The model has only got into the air once and to be honest flew very nicely, it was set up with the recomended throws and did not overly react on elevator or ailerons. When building the plane you build in all sorts of angles and all were checked and double checked to make sure they were correct. The tail lifts off the ground very quickly and is the same in some of the videos I have seen on the internet of the plane crashing in pretty much the same way as mine. Once I have rebuilt the nose I will re-check the C of G but it was checked many times before taking it to the field. With only split flaps under neath I fear that applying them may give it a nose up attitude but try to lift it off even earlier but my knowledge of this is not too good. When I flew her thew first time she was happy at about 2/3 rd's throttle although a little fast for scale flying. I need to find a way of keeping her on the ground for longer to gain more speed before take off.

Hi all  Those of you who have seen my posts in the past know I have built and converted a Top Flite DC3 to brushless electric motors. The problem is not the electrics but the aerodynamjics of the plane. The first flight consisted of applying a large amount of throttle and the plane lifting of early down to what I believed a lot of wrong triming on the elevators. This caused a premature take off and an instant wing drop. I managed to correct this as it was about 20foot high using full rudder and a lot more power. I went on to fly the plane and trimmed it in the air so all was ok. the second flight was yesterday, not so succesful, I decided to have a smoother transition through the throttle this time but at just under half throttle and a short run it lifted off very prematurely but this time was too low when it dropped a wing and caught its wing tip and nose on the ground cart wheeling down the runway. The damage was not too bad, with the nose being destroyed and a few cracks here and there. For information, I applied up elevator at the start of the run until the tail lifted in the air and then converted this to as much down elevator as I could apply without catching the props on the grass runway. The tip stall is very vicious and quick when it happens and as it is a twin and was at low speed had lttle rudder authority. I am not sure of all the options I can use and what affect they would have. and am looking for help. I did not use flaps on take off as they seemed to have a nose up affect and I am not sure of how this would affect the take off at this time, I have seperate aileron servos joined with a Y lead but could seperate them and lose the landing lights and maybe configure them to be both in the up position on the training switch ( would take some serious manual reading I think) that could maybe be released when enough speed is gained for take off. Would flaps help or could they worsen the condition? I was hoping for plane with great landing and take off ability here so did not really want to tear away at full speed but just over 1/3 throttle is tooooo low. Any help please otherwise I may never try to fly it again and that would be a real shame. TIA Nick

No problems I have just charged the batteries and to say I am a happy man is an understatement. 1492Mah and 1455Mah. That would allow me 8 minute flights with plenty of Taxi time and some room to spare. I think that I will set my tranny up for 6.5 mins for the next flight and monitor again after the next charge. I guessed there would be a small difference between the two motors due to the variable pitch props that are very hard to set identically. I cannot wait for the next flight now Nick

Have you seen page 1 of the thread?

I think that I will check the batteries and then decide on whether or not to fit the DPM. if the batteries are too different in how much needed to recharge them then you either reduce your flight to suit or fit the DPM. I had planned only a 3 minute flight time total for the first flight but it was nearly a minute of slow taxiing followed by 4 minutes of flight. It didn't feel longer than a minute up in the air and then I was landing. I was too busy thinking about the controls rather than enjoying the flight. and had the weather been better I wold have braved another flight but taking off across wind is not desireable. I will let you know what I manage to put back in the batteries though, anything less than 2000mah will make me a very happy man but today will tell.  I did get some film of it but it was with a camera not a camcorder so most of it is out of focus and the sky was terrible also. I will try to film the next one though. Nick

It has flown!!  It was a bit windy 10-15 mph and wind was across the field instead of along the runway but it kept droping off so decided I should go for it. Whilst it was without any major incident, it was not uneventfull nether the less. I had set all surfaces to  the neutral position and planned a long run off before actually commiting to air. In reality, this plane wants to get airborn too early for its own good. The tail lifted quite early as I had seen in many first flight takes (normally followed by a take off and tip stall) and mine decided to lift off at just over half throttle at neutral elevator. it also did so with avengance and before I could stop it, I was 2-3 foot off the ground, I throttled up and that was the mistake, after gaining another 10-15 feet it started to tip stall (all this happened in about 2 seconds) I had planned this moment in my head an awful lot but dropped the thottle back to 3/4's , pushed some down elevator, let go of ailerons and corrected with rudder. The result was almost immediate commitment to normal flight. The rest of the flight followed without any further issues but the below points were noted for amendment / awareness. 1. half of my trim for elevator was used to point the nose downwards for normal flight, I was initially quite concerned by this as the result is the elevators at neutral are 1/4 inch below the rear most plastic trim to which they were alligned. This makes me think that as the elevator was not over sensitive, and it did not appear tail heavy the plastic part may have not been correctly alligned by me on fitting. 2. The ailerons were very effective at their initial application but had a lower ratio of affect further in their travel. I will be applying some differential before the next flight. 3. This plane tries to get airborn very quickly, I think it is very important to ensure the nose is kept down and sufficient speed is gained before getting airborn. 4. The rudder is also quite sensitive and may not need as much movement as they say in the manual. Again differential may be the way forward. 5. flaps as per the manuals settings, first stage @ 2/3rds throttle gives a 5-10 degrees nose up attitude with no other affects noticed. Second stage (landing setting) at 2/3rds throttle gave around 30-35 degrees nose up attitude and some coupling ,my be needed with the elevator. however, landing did not need them, ans from above, may cause further issues on take off if you are not carefull. 6. Landing, throttling back to 1/3rd throttle, was maybe too ambitious and severely lowere the effectivness of the elevator. The end result gave a love;y glide pattern to the runway but would not flare at all. More throttle, and maybe some flaps will help but with only one landing so far then I cannot comment fully on this. I have used 2x3700 4s1p  batteries and have not yet charged them but had 5 mins 30 seconds complete run time includng taxi time etc. I will charge them this weekend and see what I have used in total. Other than that, its a great plane and eveything else can be ironed out.

Hi all  currently building an electric Tucano and really want a 11x7 folding prop and even better would be with an Ally spinner. I need it to be able to fit onto a 4mm shaft to make things a little worse. I have looked around but cannot see one or if they even make one. (I did get one from an oriental supplier but appears to spin over half an inch out of true so maybe closer to home this time.) Thanks in advance if you can help Nick

I had seen the forum but only as far as the first flight and mis-hap. I hadn't checked it in a while whilst I was following another thread for a different project. Out of interest, which motors are you going for, I have watched his vidoes and it looks great but may want a little more speed for some nippy low passes. I was expecting to be heading towards 400 watt for the pair of motors and think folding props are essential given that you really don't want any form of undercarriage.  Just reading the thread makes me want to build it but have to work it in order as it were ( just ordered a flying wing today that will assemble in a few days for some extreme speed flying that will be squeezed before the build starts also) I was also planning to run both motors from a single 4s1p battery and opto controllers to allow a small lipo for the recever and servos. what are your plans?

Hi Andy  I too have the 80" Ptero in its box waiting to be built. I was hoping to have it started by now but have a tucano, extra 300s artf's keekat (or is that kitkat) to start and finish before it gets to the bench. I looked at it originally about 2 years ago but thought the costs of brushless motors and LiPo's made it a lot of money for the time, but now(hehe I make 2 years sound like it was yesteryear) but now very much more affordable. anyway, off topic and nice looking build

I think their stance is that they might have been incorrectly badged as being EC approved hence the need to have Horizon UK take a look at them. A guy at my club had his done recently as he brought his from a recent trip to the states. Said it took them five minutes so probably something very easy to do but still best to let them do it.

Hi John  Flicking through this thread I noted that you are building a Top Flite Dakota and converting it to Electric. I have just finished my exact same conversion and although I do not class myself as an expert in any way, I am pretty sure that if you have any setup concerns plans etc, I reckon most of my bad planning meant I have already experienced them. Interesting, this is the second time I have posted this link today but  http://www.modelflying.co.uk/gallery/image.asp?sp=&v=5&uabn=244&uin=1944 I followed some very interesting threads on another forum that helped with a lot of ideas for hidden controls for the flaps, and covering methods etc.  I spoke to Timbo re DPM'sand tried source them locally but could not find them. In the meantime I finished the build and am not sure of how I would integrate them into the power setup I have. I (despite the warnings from Timbo ) will possibly try without the DPM. I have now completed 15 ground runs with all indicating that one motor is very likely to cut out prior to the other (6.5 min runs from 3/4 to full throttle) all leaving around 100 Mah difference in draw. However, I have used varible pitch three bladed props which are manually setup and still need a little more tweaking as the rpm is a couple of hundred out at the moment. Once they are more balanced I think that I will be able to safely fly for 6 minutes and have 1 minute for approaches etc. I actually expect to have a lot more in reserve but won't comment until she has been in the air. One thing I wills ay is that there is a lot of chat and videos of these just rolling over straight after take off and crashing with no way to stop it. From the ground tests I have made on my setup, the 1.5 degrees of up incidence built into the tail gets the tail up and airborne very quickly, that is the mistake I think of the many as it may bee seen as a plane ready to be airborne and causes almost instant stalling. My  guess is without flaps I will need to be looking at 3/4 throttle at the very least and a slightly extended take off run to ensure adequate speed for take off.

Hi Erfolg  I do fly electrics, see my gallery pictures http://www.modelflying.co.uk/gallery/image.asp?sp=&v=5&uabn=244&uin=1944 The picture is of my Top Flite DC3 that I built converting to Electric and as yet not flown. This sits along side 3 great planes electric fun fly planes, a foamie F15, formosa. The problem we have as the field now is that there is UK planning permission placed on our field that restricts flying to the times mentioned. My workload cannot be adjusted at the moment so have to continue missing out until later on this year which is a great shame and to be honest it has also impacted on my wanting to build. I currently have 3 planes waiting to be test flown with 2 more on the way. the sooner I get to fly the better. I would like to say that I like to balance my models powers with a mix of electric and IC with my largest being the Seagull YAK 54 running with a Saito 125. However, my company share options soon about to be released may well fund something in the 50cc petrol range for my new flying field........I am thinking it might be time for a Spitfire

I fly @ a site that is also restricted to 81db and has stron planning permission in place also. We can only fly Monday to Saturday 9am-1pm and 3pm to 7pm and nothing at all on Sundays. This was mostly caused by someone being irrated by something a long while ago and whilst it seems unfair, I guess if you think about it, take something that annoys you and then be subjected to it every day, it can become an obsession and in my fields case is probably so. The main complainee actually admitted that it wasn't so much the noise than he just didn't want us there fullstop. It causes working flyers like myself some real issues as in the winter I only get to fly on Saturday mornings.....think about that. I have however just joined a second club after only managing to fly 4 times since November and guess what, work has picked up and am working most weekends as well now......its work that should be restricted not the flying sites.. Nick

Hi John  you are using the switch harness that came with the set aren't you? it needs the three wires to be able to bind whereas futaba switches etc only have the two wires. Also the swicth has to be plugged into the left most socket on the receiver. Nick

Hi Dave  As this is your first Electric model I will try list a few basic setup requirments You already have the 3 wires of the ESC plugged into the motor and no matter how they are connected, if everything is ok then you should get some movement in one direction or another ( I was also advised not to run a motor without a prop but for the life of me cannot remember why but it was bad to do so )  The servo looking wire plugs into the throttle connection of your receiver. The battery plugs into the the two wires of the esc, do not use a switch as the power that could be drawn could be a lot greater than the switch could handle. By default no other battery is required for operation UNLESS you have what is called an OPTO    ESC which requires you to have a second battery connected to the receiver. (if you post details of what you have we can have a look at what you have to make sure) Turn on your transmitter and and pull your throttle to the fully off position, and connect battery. you should now here a number of beeps and a lot of ESC's are different, but if they stop beeping then slowly move your throttle forward. If by half throttle there is no response, move it to the full position, leave it there for a second and start to return it slowly be carefull at this point for this reason, some esc's require you to start the throttle in the off position and then set the full on position, for these you would then return the throttle to the off position and slowly moving forward your throttle again now could well trigger some action on the motor......HOWEVER... if your throttle setting on your transmitter needs to be reversed which is normal for certain brands, means that by moving the your throttle to the full on position would full arm it in what it thinks is the off position, and returning the throttle to the fully off could in fact trigger full throttle If your motor starts to turn as you start to bring your throttle back from full then power off by disconnecting the battery , reverse your throttle and try again. If you still get no movement, still try to reverse your throttle and repeat and having the throttle in the wrong startup position can in fact trigger the setup mode and that is a whole new story. I hope this helps, but let me know how it goes