Peter Roberts

Good for you Alistair. Makes complete sense.

Hi Phil, Many thanks for the suggestion - I'll take the engine and tank out and check all the metal pipework over. Certainly never thought about the metal pipes. I have already changed the ordinary fuel pipes. The engine is about 12 years old and laid up for the first 9-10 of its life - but hadn't been run. It started first time and has given nearly a couple of years good service. About 9 months ago I stopped flying it and came to use it after another 6 months with the result that it would run and cut for no apparent reason. I'll try your suggestion thanks and post my experiences back here.

I used to use Duraglo 10 all the time with good results but a bit messy. I changed a couple of years ago to the ProSynth 2000 because I was impressed by the claims on reduced wear and corrosion and a conversation with them at a Sandown show. I was astonished when I started using it that the mess was reduced significantly when compared with the Duraglo.

My best advice would be 1. join a club 2. buy a good fixed wing trainer (if you are already good at building - get a Flair Kite it is nearly indestructable)or Tudor 40 ARTF 3. Put in a good engine (love OS 46AX's) 4. Buy a mid range radio set from either Futaba or JR (see whatever your club uses so they can help you programme it) 5. If you can afford it buy a second same spec tranny with a buddy lead. This doesn't have to be expensive - look at the big shows for bargains and ask the stands what price for Tx and battery only. This way you won't be hanging around all morning for 2 flights and will be able to buddy with any of the club instructors who'll be more willing to buddy because you make it easy. If you are still short of stick time go and have a day with someone like Paul Heckes or Tim at their flying school. A day's tuition only £100 if shared with a friend is well worth it for the intensive input and guidance you get.

To try to answer David's question. It is really interesting at our club and I noticed this on last Friday afternoon's meet that by coincidence 40% of the flight line pilots had brought an electric model with them. It caused the chief instructor's jaw to hit the floor. It is quite interesting to see what is doing it. The main reasons are 1. less noise - we have a noise sensitive site 2. We have a quiet electric only flight day - Sundays - which quite a few members prefer 3. Less mess than ic fuel 4. Duration of flights now possible and ability of batteries to handle larger models 5. Interest in EDF where members can't afford jets but like the idea 6. Existing radio gear can be used in leccy the same as ic except for bits like ESC (and that's regarded as battery) 7. Availability of internet means some import batteries, fans, motors etc from overseas dealers making them think it is a cheaper powertrain for the hobby. Very few are about saving the planet and most realise that electric can often be more costly than ic - but they regard that as fairly even stevens as engines cost less but batteries more helps to balance things out. Most people with electric do miss the engine sound (especially a nice 4 stroke) and currently most members with electric do still have both forms of power in use. I think we have one member who does electric only and is our club GURU on matters electrical. It is interesting David to see it change. I also suspect that availability of foamies and similar with accompanying lower price might be having an impact for a few. I want to have my cake and eat it. I like large 4 stroke ics but having made an initial investment in 2 sizes of batteries 4s1p 3700 and 3s1p 1800 seem to have a basis for a broad range of possible electric models. My small stable of models is growing (good for UK hobby shops and trade shows where I spend far too much). Interestingly I certainly change my motors between models more in electric than I do with ic. If I'm honest having electric and ic gives me the excuse to buy more and different models!

Now there's an interesting idea. Although I admit to having had a couple of dead sticks whilst getting used to battery life! I've got a couple of electrics and will be interested to know how you get on. I converted a Black Horse Twister to electric, had all sorts of problems with it because I under spec'd the motor which promptly melted! I then used a Hyperion 40 series (nice motor) and ESC which flew wonderfully but totalled it (due to pilot error) at speed so the Hyperion is now sitting happily in a Pulse XT which is really lovely. The good thing about the Pulse XT is that it is fitted with mounts for either electric or ic, looks good and is great to handle. I have to admit to being cautious now about doing leccy conversions. Will be interested to know how you get on with both the electrified Wot4 and Just Engine's repair of your J'EN. mean while enjoy the Wot 4.

Danny - what a tragic outcome. You know what Jenny's first question will be - what fuel have you been using? Are they going to replace it under warranty? I'm furiously touching wood as mine is doing a great job on my Kite with oodles of power and making a great difference. Interested to see someone else using a OS 52 four stroke on the same plane - it certainly had a lot of low end power for take off. Do let us know what Jenny says.

I think time is one of our biggest enemies - either we follow the hobby and enjoy flying planes (which is what I want to do primarily) or end up not getting onto the strip but spending the time I would have had on the strip in a workshop. I agree there is a lot of satisfaction in finishing a plane but to some of us who are time challenged even completing an ARTF can be a challenge especially when the instructions in the kit are lousy as some of them are. In such cases you are forced to try to alter the model, repair your mistakes (because you were taken down a blind alley through poor instructions or old illustrations) and generally spend time you wanted to spend flying in frustration. The frustration is partly because we dont have the skills or possibly materials and want to be flying. If we then can't spend any time on the strip its the biggest dis incentive to following the hobby. My greatest satisfaction was to build and cover my own model from an ARTF kit. My attempts were careful but took an inordinate amount of time - 40 to 50 hrs on a laser cut kit and it was supplied with with good instructions! Great when finished but so frustrating when doing it and not flying. I also agree that this kit is the strongest I've ever built and has survived things some artf's I've smashed would have been written off by. Suppliers wouldn't find me a good customer either if I built each kit because I would build and fly so few. ARTFs do get and keep people in the hobby who may not otherwise enter or stay. We should demand good quality and instructions and that's where RCM&E and trade mags can honestly review and expose poor build and poor instructions and we should tell them likewise when our experiences in building even an ARTF kit are not good. I'm sure we have all had times when we've read a good review, bought a kit and then cursed the reviewer for saying life was easy when we found it anything but.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=9303&CatId= Link to Horizon Hobby showing the new JR 2.4 systems due for delivery July. Note they include equivalents to the JR 9 series

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=9303&CatId= Lists the new JR x9303 2.4 Spektrum units on offer in the USA - Late July. With our exchange rates at the moment...

Congratulations to Allan and the organisaers of the show. The venue and the flying were both excellent. For a first show it was really good. I would be interested to know the final count of attendees but it certainly looked really busy there yesterday inspite of the winds. I guess too that I marvelled at how the organisers had persuaded Blackbushe to curtail all but the helicopter use of the airport which gave us such an excellent venue with plumbed in loos and excellent access and parking. Catering wasn't bad just needed a bit more to get rid of the queues. What about a tea tent - something done by the ladies of the club like they do at Hastings which is always excellent. Please do feel encouraged by yesterday's success and all who flew and orgamised it should have been enthused by the turnout. Well done too to the trade suppliers who did turn out and support the show. Their understandable hesitance with a new show was evident in the amount of stuff they took. But at least they were there. I would have liked to have seen many more trade stands and bigger and I'm sure there will be next year. The flying and the models were spectacular - I got some excellent photos and was in open mouthed awe at what I saw. I really enjoyed the demonstration of glider towing and flying - really nice to see that. The quality of the models - large and small being flown were fabulous and along with the rest of the spectators I drooled at the finish of the planes being shown and flown. It does bode well for those of us in the South East who were bemoaning the loss of Sandown - This in May, Wings and Wheels in June, Hastings July - and the Hop Farm in September. Excellent - lots to look forward to. Mind you I would have loved to have had a buddy on some of those jets, yesterday! Now where is Paul Heckles number....... See you there next year.

Scott, When I first looked at EDF I talked to the guys at the Electric Plane Company - http://www.modellhaus.co.uk/ who were really helpful making sure, battery, controller, motor, fan etc all matched. They also advised on servos, receiver etc for the model. I wouldn't hesitate to talk to them and their service to me has been first class. Peter

Scott Have you tried the HET kits? I agree not top end in size and price but accessible for most people. And I'm looking forward to seeing the new EDF models Robotbirds are starting to sell - yes foam but bigger and I'm led to believe sturdier. Hope to see them at the Thames Valley show in 19th. Another member of our club is testing out low cost Schubeler imitations which he's importing including some with integrated motor and controllers. It looks as if it could be a developing scene. Peter Peter

Don't know if it is any use but I used a spare futaba RX battery which I had replaced with more powerful from one of the shows and connected using the diagram found in the SMC catalogue - which was really helpful to a numpty like me. Best wishes Peter

You mentioned looking for an electric meter. Look at the Hyperion e meter from Robot birds. Fits between battery and ESC and is very useful, can be linked to PC but has an onboard memory and lots of other goodies. Oh and can be used to programme the Hyperion ESC range. I like it.

The project sounds great. Ic and electric possibilities - better still. Retracts (and flaps?). Four stroke. Pre formed kit fatastic. Can we get laser cut parts and materials kit? Paying a few quid for a plan will not be an issue. Remember Tony there are quite a few of us who haven't got your very considerable skills but who would like to build such things. All your previous models have been show stoppers. Will the kit be flown at the Hop Farm? Is that a date? Hope so - thanks - Peter PS What about a Fairey Swordfish next time?

1. What % of your fleet is electric 50:50 at the moment and I have an F20 EDF to build (to fit my 4s1p lipos) and a Large Piper Cub ic for an RCV 91 2. What % of your time in the air is electric powered Depends if I'm only available to fly on the electric only days and if our farmer has a car boot sale on our electric flying day which means 0%. I like both. My tough ic Kite is better suited to my erratic flying. 3. Is electric flight going to kill the traditional hobby or is it bringing a new dimension. Adding a new dimension. There is nothing like an ic 4 stroke on a warbird or similar - sounds great. What I'm looking for is electrics (like my Pulse XT) which start to hit the popular ic range and which has been designed with either in mind. What an intelligent route to take Hangar 9. Quite a few electrics I've seen seem to find it difficult to battle with the elements on a windy day - mind you I can still crash either ic or electric on a calm day if my age is catching up with me! 4. Electric type content in RCM&E - is it It has just improved with the addition of the edf and F20 articles but do keep a balance -I'm happy to buy both RCM&E and Quiet and Electric flight. Don't give me a reason to only buy one of the mags, please.

Having read tis thread and NOT an engineer I have to say that usually I have bought and started OS 4 strokes straight from the box with no running in on 10% nitro. I've left the main needle and low end as set by the manufacturer. I attach pressure feed to tank. Then I open the throttle fully with the tank full and with no glo on cover the air inlet with a finger and wind the prop twice anti clockwise. I then shut the throttle to idle position, apply the glo plug and keeping hands arms and fingers clear apply the starter. It usually starts first time every time.

Just to add a preference - I have to admit to liking the Irvine charger / switches (Slough MOdels Switch W/Chrg Skt. Fut (Irv)- £7.75) which are really robust and come in versions to suit most makes of radio gear. Well worth the extra as you can leave the radio battery in the plane and insert your charging lead into a socket which is part of to the externally mounted switch and built to last. Give it a try. TTFN Peter

Thanks guys for your posts. I'm certainly no engineer. However I have been using Prosynth 2000 with all my engines for the last couple of years which seems less messy than previous fuels. Before that I used Duraglo on 2 and 4 strokes but I prefer 4 strokes. They start easily, sound great and tick over beautifully. We it did do until it stopped doing so! Cheers TTFN

I don't disagree with Andrew's comments although there is absolutely no doubt that electric use is on the increase. However I only know 1 member of our club who is electric only. The rest of us with electric models have done it to comply with electric only flying days for good neighbourliness in our area. It is certain that this number is slowly increasing. My motivation is simple - having invested in 4s1p LiPo batteries I'm looking for models in which I can use this kit. I've recently built and fitted the same batteries in a Samba and Hangar9 Pulse XT (Capable of using both ic and electric) the latter of which seems to be a really nice flier. Both these models are able to use the same batteries I've already invested in. Last Friday I flew both ic and electric at the same meet and gave our instructors the chance to fly my XT which they seemed to like. Once you've delved into electrics I think a for quite a few people it becomes simple economics not environmental evangelism.

The reviews section would gather rankings so this should literally be to highlight building difficulties and problems where kits and instructions are not up to par. People may be better prepared to complete in line - how could you organsie or categorise the feedback - by model and manufacturer I suppose.

Hi Aslan - many thanks for the advice - sorry to be thick but how / where exactly does the tubing fit? Many thanks Peter

Can anyone help please. I have an OS 70 FS Surpass which has been a delightful and reliable engine over the last few years. (Engine is 12 yrs old but sat in my garage for 9 and started first time). Recently after a period of in activity it would start run on idle for a while then cut. This happens irrespective of idle speed. I have changed pipework and tank filter, and plug. I don't know what to try now other than send it off top Just Engines for a de gunk and service. Any suggestions will be gratefully read. Cheers Peter

I know this clearly an WOT4 ARTF thread but I do like the idea of UK build ARF's. I haven't gopt a WOT4 I've got a Flair Kite which I think is just as sturdy (if not more so) than the WOT4. It did take (me) a long time to build and cover but id an amazingly durable plane. I recently swapped my OS46AX for a J'EN .57 which has added a new lease of life to the Kite. The point - well I too asked what it would cost to build and was quoted £200 a day!! Took me a long time but did it myself. Good plane. Should be more widely used. They too have been around a while. they were the ATS Kite if anyone remembers.