Dave Bran

Avicraft would no doubt Mail Order genuine Twister Coastguard "long" batteries for you if they are still available, they collect from JP personally.  However, the more normal sized medevac 55x14x30 battery fits well sideways!!  Alternatively, and even better  the 5C charge Tipple 800mAh 2S from GC ALSO FITS, you put it in sideways and the body holds it securely. I'm looking at one installed right now, have just been flying it to check for you!!  Hope this helps.

Posted by Ultymate on 26/11/2009 11:04:07: The Wot 4 Excellent model that it is, as indeed are all the Chris Foss models, but I've always thought it a tad expensive for what it is JMHO, that said you can't argue that it does exactly what it says on the tin. I still own one but it's dustbound in the loft Yes, the Wot 4 does strike as expensive, esp when I got a new unbuilt Tango ARTF for £80 and a complete near new one with OS 70 4St ready for receiver and fly for £100, but when you see what abuse the Wot range will stand up to it seems far less painful. Posted by Richard Bond on 26/11/2009 11:06:26:  P.S. Dave, who drives the car when you are fully hidden in the boot, is there something we do not know about?!   My Manservant, of course, I have to travel in the boot, too many Groupies after me otherwise.  

I don't own a Wot 4 and I don't expect to, but from watching the numerous ones with club members, have to agree, the Wot 4 would take a lot of beating for general power flying, closely followed by the Prangster (again never owned). If we are talking power and owned then in my case it has to be the Hangar 9 Tango, the only plane I have ever bought twice, AND with both flying currently.... Now you want versatile, then this really IS it, tough, light, fully 3d capable, stands wind, short rough field capable. Yet on low rates it'll poodle trainer style.  AND its so ARTF it's almost RTF!!! Only bad news is quite heavy rudder roll coupling really, but I'm still resisting mixing to solve it as I consider it's good for me.......the hair shirt bit.............  I have switchable Aileron/Elevator mixing, Flaperon/Spoileron on a side slide, and it's SO much fun!!!!  Favourite moves are extremely tight bunts, inverted spins, and knife edge loops, but it does whatever you can do.  One has a 70 4St, the other a 52 2St, other than that they are identical in setup.  I have a 91 powered Panic and a 26cc Edge 540, they have become hangar bound, the Tango(s!) is THAT good!!   

Posted by Timbo - Administrator on 25/11/2009 17:38:56: In no way disputing anybody's perfectly legitimate reason for preferring any model they name, I am a  little surprised at the Alula as first choice - great as mine is, I cant subscribe to the versatility factor - I would /could not fly mine in 60MPH....or do combat with Polly or anyone else with my Mk1 Alula .  Just because you can't fly without bumping into other planes..................  Well, despite the run of winds this autumn, my Alula is still up on hours over the year on anything else, especially my two WT's.  You may be close to excellent and usually windy slopes, I'm not.............I have to drive distances when I can pinch the time to find often less than ideal conditions, or take what's available. The question was "bang for buck" slope soaring, no specification as to wind range, or ability to combat.  Or did I miss something?   If you take it on the last month alone, then my relatively lightly built 60" WT has more hours, but my 100g Alula can travel anywhere with me fully hidden in the boot, can be used in no wind at all, has been flown in conditions far more likely to occur than not, and any inclined ground at all or wall or lorry container or shed or tree/scrub line is a "slope".      

Posted by flytilbroke on 25/11/2009 21:51:13: Nice day, pretty calm. Best fun to be had racing each other to the bottom of the hill. Second best, who takes the longest to reach the bottom of the hill. The only "bang" is the sound of arrival.  OR, you could fly an Alula.................

Much as I like FlyingWings products, I also have a 60" and a 46" WT, and they are both excellent. WT's shade the rest in that size bracket mainly because of the simple but clever hidden controls design and robustness. My 46" WT took a heck of a beating on Tues as a huge sudden gust on top of a 30mph wind, just after landing but before I could grab it, took it out of control tumbling back over the top of the slope 100 metres or more into a thorn bush..........deranged nose repaired in less than a minute............and that only because the ply wasn't bonded well to the EPP.  However, for sheer pleasure,  versatility, and amount of opportunities for use with NO on-costs, my Mk 1 Alula is the KING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Posted by Mike Evans 2 on 24/11/2009 15:09:49: Thanks for all your thoughts; it looks like I'll give the Phoenix software a go. I've got a 6EXAP radio, a couple of crashed multiplex park fliers and a Tutor 40 with a OS46 in it which is still fully operational and not crashed yet! (I've only flown it twice under the guidance of a experienced RC flyer). Have not seen what was said elsewhere on this occasion, but  I use Phoenix with a 6EXAP. You need a lead with the correct plug for the Tx, but once you have this (a short adaptor from jack to square plug in my case) it's been perfect, ever since it was introduced, I had one of the first.   I don't use a separate memory slot for the Sim, I use an active one. You have to remember to recalibrate (a very quick process) IF you alter the trim of the "real" plane, trimming the Sim to the Tx settings, but it all works, and easily.  The other day somebody on another forum was authoritively stating that it needs two setups/spare TX memories to be allocated, one for Heli and one for Fixed Wing to work at all, and my local Model Shop set up their demo one this way and tell people it needs this..............BUT this is total utter RUBBISH, you do not normally even need one Tx memory spare!!!  I have also successfully used Phoenix with a CCPM dedicated Tx from a Twister Heli - it really is quite adaptable and setting is not rocket science, s'why I get quite annoyed by the derogatory and totally misinformed comments from the "nowitall can't be helped's".  I was asked to be a pre-beta issue tester for the last major (free to all!) upgrade, so have used it lots and lots (and lots!!)  I also have Clearview, FMS, SSS, CRRC, and have used the other major players like Aerofly and Reflex, so I can speak from some background, though obviously these are still my own subjective views.    BTW, I have made a considerable amount of additional sceneries and plane schemes using the free "Creator".   PS I forgot Leo's Simulator, too!! Edited By Dave Bran on 25/11/2009 08:48:54

Helis or Fixed Wing, or both..............?? Best overall IMO is Phoenix.

I recently bought  a clearly stated as "New in Box" engine from EBay, to find bits missing, paint smears round rear of prop driver from rotation against a cowl, etc, spilled fuel proofer over crankcase, carve out of rear crankcase, marks on throttle arm from use, elongated mounting holes (one drilled out at 45 degrees to plumb), dent flatted casting most likely from being dropped onto hard surface, and more...............none of which was identified by text or visible in picture even looking back after seeing the real thing.  Oh, and he all but wrote off the box by sticking ugly packing tape all over it  and sending it wrapped in a bin liner with the engine loose inside the box.  Seller offered "Returns Available" on advert, clearly to help sales, but now refuses, insisting it wasn't RUN so it therefore WAS "new", I should have looked more carefully before bidding and he's reporting me for time wasting!!!! No need for advice on this ongoing matter, but it may help curb your over-active EBay ardour................

Posted by Big Phil on 15/11/2009 16:35:35: Did not have the weather to day, but finished off my panic and now waiting for a good day to try her out-can't wait! Looks good Phil, have you fuel proof sealed all the film joints??  The rainbow Panics look superb, but soon spoil if fuel gets in the joins. (I have a boring old white one, less joins!!)  

My club field would have been horrendously muddy, it has a really bad worm problem, and the soft muddy worm casts get smeared and thrown up by wheels everywhere (YUK) so went to local (legal) park early to maiden a new indoor EPP shockie type plane. (Yup, able to fly something that light outdoors after all that wind yesterday and overnight)  After about half a battery it rained, not too upset as it didn't have enough aileron power for my liking.  Went home, started to work on the plane, developed a splitting headache, crashed out and slept for an hour and a half, finished the plane, aileron throws now more like opposing flaps (!!) then daughters kids round for lunch so usual chaos.................they left at quarter to 2, bit of wind but nice and sunny, so I left too, back to park to fly the 200g plane again in 8-10mph..........which it did very successfully, till dusk loomed.  Good fun prop hanging vertically while moving quite fast sideways....................  So it's ready for an Indoor first flight session next Sun night .

Posted by Phil Wood - Moderator on 13/11/2009 23:15:14: Nah....slopes are nice things...they always bring your model back safely.Polyphilla.  Excellent, helpful, that............I'll ignore the signs and send my pupils bills to you then.................... Mostly, feel it's all been said now, hence the ribaldry/etc.........but for my 5p's worth, while I'm quite happy flying slope in anything less than around 40mph (with the right model), I would not fly my local club field with power versions of the same plane (FW Buzz, Buzz Lightning, Slipstream, etc) much above a mere half that, as the sudden stabs of turbulence are far too violent for safety.  Flying the Tango there the other day, starting at about 10mph, a plane that copes with wind far better than it's appearance might suggest, but the wind eventually rose over the 25mph level and the upwind erratic shaped tree line started causing extreme instability in the airflow, so time to land............  I usually try to use my windsurfing windmeter, BTW....as subjective estimation is VERY imprecise.

DW,  If you have not done so already, take something like the Extra and use the EDIT edit facility on a copy to alter the plane gradually worse and worse. I have four differing setups for the Ultimate, for example, making it far worse than my "Panic".  It is not important to "make it like yours", you actually need to gradually set it up more and more extreme until you can fly a dog passably well, then you will find that your own plane is SO easy.

Bob, There are slopes, and then there are slopes.  Best to find somewhere for a first try not only where the wind is right but a slope without a sharp lip or lots of mobile obstructions (sorry, trees and bushes!).  For example, in Sussex THE best beginner slope is Jack and Jill (Clayton) as it has a massive visible short grass area, no major lip, and is very benign. You can also park right by where you fly for fettling.  If I have a maiden to do on something less than bullet proof, that's where I head, also where I take first timers.............. No shortage of wind down south yesterday!!  

Point to bear in mind for the future, Avicraft make visits to JP at min weekly and usually can arrange to collect twice weekly, so if they don't have it, they soon will.

Report 2 on the OS70FL 4 St engined Tango___________________________________ After hunting in my LMS, and coming up blank on a suitable prop as to stocked items, in discussion we found an APC 13x4 "Wide", so I ordered one.  At the same time I bought some Contest 10% fuel. AND...................My OS 70FL runs absolutely superbly now!! Good idle (well it was good before, now it's seemingly bullet proof and can be soooooo slooooowwww), good throttle response static, instant power, but does NOT seem to over rev itself, and if anything seems quieter. Unlimited vertical, it flies on less than a third throttle, hovers on about half throttle, punches straight up and out. Considerably easier to slow up, too, so landings are easier and more importantly uplines and downlines are far easier to pace to near the same speed Better control near the "stall", instant prop wash allows much safer operation at near zero flying speed, too. SO, it now seems perfectly propped, in fact whereas while the OS70FL was on the 13x6 the other Tango with the SC 52 2St  was much better, it has swung the other way now! Just shows how important prop/fuel choice is! (mostly prop I feel)

OK, the prop range recommended for the OS70FL is between 12x7 and 13x6. It was on purchase fitted with a 13x6, a pretty cheap and cheerful paddle bladed Master Airscrew "K" series, which incidentally on post first flight inspection has a centre hole significantly larger than it should be, though it was clamped up in balance!! It started readily once fuel reached the engine (rear updraft carb and ABC, so needs a few spins on the motor), and throttling, and after a few tweaks to get the radio set right, idling, was very good and reliable, in fact the only issue I had was stopping it, had to tweak the throttle cut twice, it just wanted to run and run at near zero revs!! Seems from sound and perceived thrust maintenance when in flight to be over pitched/propped to me, but then I'm NOT used to 4 strokers.  Take off was it's own length, yet it's not able to vertically climb unlimited, it does tail off.  Seems too fast flying relative to thrust, too, so suggests too much pitch. (for 3D type use). Definitely on this first showing it's not as good as the SC52 powered but otherwise identical plane I have to compare. I'm only running 5% nitro, the bottom end of the 5-15% they say......so maybe worth raising this......but the SC52 absolutely LOVES 5%, and in fact runs very well on straight!!!!.   Only have a 12x6 in props that small to hand, and that might be pushing it a bit small, so a shopping trip will now ensue!  Early days................So far so good, anyway!

I have already over time tried four different props on the 52, so I'm confident it now has the optimum prop on it FOR THAT PLANE AND ENGINE COMBO.   With this prop (I'll keep it a secret at the moment) it will take off in twice it's length, is very very quick (it whistles like a mouldie glider!!), yet will prop hang on half throttle and punches straight out vertically with no hesitation. The only minimal downside is that the thrust is so good that I need a lower than ideally fully safe idle to land, no real issue, set via Idle Down and flipped in before finals.  The 4 St?, well, we'll see.................................

Should be, yes...............  All I can say so far is that static thrust seems to be in the favour of the 52, noticeable, but not by all that much, esp when the 4 St is set up pretty rich currently. Relative Torque will factor, I guess......................  Sadly, I don't (yet) have a rev counter.  Probably will need a better prop on the 4St too, It's off a paddle steamer currently!!...       

Since Julys last post, I have been flying the Tango at every opportunity, even my 91 powered Panic has been having a rest.  Gradually have added trick mixes and throws to make it even more extreme, to the point where I'm half expecting the wing to give up..........but.........it may be super light, and has been beat up, but its super strong, too!!  However......................as of last night............ I'm now the owner of TWO Tangos!!   No 1 as above posts with SC52 No2 second hand buy with OS 70FL.  Be able to directly compare 2St and 4St power!  So far have checked it over, refixed a fair amount of loose film, installed my Rx (617 2.4GHz Futaba), copied the settings to a new memory on my 10CG, so at least that saved all the programming of Spoilerons/Flaperons/Linked Aileron-Elevator, etc, etc........but still a fair bit of work since this one has JR servos which are reversed on Futaba.  Grotty day today here, but did manage to run up the engine in the garden in between deluges and set up the EPA/Idle Down/Throttle Cut.

Hi Bryce, Depends on the Sim's physics, the specific model maker's physics accuracy, etc, etc, etc, etc............  In the case of Phoenix and the TRex 450 (I actually have a GL450SE but hey, they are the same), loops, rolls and inverted are VERY accurately portrayed. I went for ages on the Sim not having the bottle to do it for real....and when I did, if "felt" just the same...................................as the modern idiom goes......simples..................

Strong Winds currently, so in two words................. SLOPE SOARING   

I was given a FL Mustang...............the quality of everything on it is poor to diabolical. It had a broken cowl.....splintered into many pieces.......I think somebody sneezed ten miles away............... the replacement turned up ready broken, as did the next one as I gingerly removed it from it's plastic bag packing.    IMO they are simply Not Fit For Purpose!!!!  Do NOT Buy one!!!

I run a school club and it's VERY noticeable which kids have a Sim. One point, while it's a good way of trying moves you would not in real life (yet), there is an aspect that you should really some of the time at least try to treat the "model" like a real world expensive one, that is set wind conditions, etc and fight the model all the time, don't allow it to crash and restart cos that's easier, as only THAT way will you really learn all the aspects of flying in a real more unpredictable world! ENJOY!!

OK Guys, 2.5 has been running a while now, and comments here have stopped. Does that mean everyone is happy with it? For my part, the main bug left is that if you are in a multi session and somebody else joins, or occasionally even if someone in the session changes plane, there can be a significant visual freeze of your on screen plane/heli...........BUT, and it's a MASSIVE BUT, the computation of plane movement continues, so the chances are that when the programme releases your visual model back to where it now "is", it jumps hugely and so you are most likely to be crashed!!! Also, being super critical (cos it's still IMO the best) the range of fixed wing planes is still very limited, as there are loads and loads of similar flying 3D/Red Bull Air Race type aircraft, and not a great deal else. Missing and not otherwise covered are (just a selection, no ordering):- Panic Biplane Slope Soarers numerous, from FW's to Mouldies, esp 60" racers. Pod and boom power trainersIndoor IFO/Bongo disc/pizza planes Fast Delta power like the Buzz LightningMagnatillaDawn Patrol stuff CanardsSports Autogyro  I'm sure you can add to this list.......................  And finally for now, how many of you have "opened the bonnet" and played around with the EDIT facilities?      Edited By Dave Bran on 06/08/2009 07:50:22