Richard Clark 2

It's coming along nicely. Good to see an entirely scratch built model. On my Mercury one the battery is mounted low down and transversely at the C of G with a small hatch on the side. That way I can use any size battery I want or even change to glow without altering the C of G. (I used a 'quick change' method of mounting either including an enclosed glow silencer and both a throttle servo, its linkage, fuel tank, and an ESC are permanently installed.) By pure luck the glow engine with its silencer and the electric motor weigh exactly the same.)

Posted by SR 71 on 25/06/2020 10:46:32: Im a modeller of 70 years flown everything from gliders to twin turbine jets and scratch build most of my models, the club i belonged to in Cyprus had just the one rule, common sense. I have now returned to this country and joined a club but find i cannot fly because i dont have a A certificate, and also that i cannot fly my favourite model, the only one i brought back with me, because i have to have a B certificate to fly it as it weighs just over 7,5 kg Im now looking for a new hobby Common sense is the only rule needed, I'm presumably a little younger than you having only managed about 60 years of model flying. Like you I've done it all with the exception of turbines as they not allowed at the only site I can now be bothered to go to. I'm not going to travel 30, 40 miles or so and back just to play with a toy plane whatever it's powered by. Clubs. Despite the BMFA never intending the 'A' certificate to be any kind of 'licence' AND REPEATEDLY SAYING SO some officious clubs are using it as such. It's unlikely to get them new members.

Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 24/06/2020 10:37:35: Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 24/06/2020 08:59:04: Jeti radios are nice. Would I buy one? No. I don't care about the prices but: 1) Jeti radios only exist at all because of an EU 'Small countries development grant' so justified or not I have personal doubts about their continued existence. 2) There is no large and long established UK agent and those small agents that do exist are constantly changing. So among other problems with such agents, such as "who's the best small agent this week?" I have doubts about getting it fixed if it breaks. 3) Over the years all the several Jeti ESCs I have purchased have melted sooner or later even though used well within spec. So I have doubts about Jeti's technical competence and quality control. 4)The constant promotion of Jeti by a well-knows US agent on a well-known US forum indicates that a Jeti installation, can be as complicated and can involve as many boxes as an Apollo Moon Mission. What do I use? Multiplex, and have done so for year. But their quality, though 'adequate' is not as good as it used to be. Alternatives? Only one - The Futaba T18SZ. It is more than double the price of a Multiplex Evo, Royal, or Royal SX But other than OpenTx it is the only one that comes even remotely close to their functionality. As for OpenTx, I'm totally put off by all the dopey, ever self-promoting fanboyism over a mere machine. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 24/06/2020 09:01:28 Richard As someone who made the change to Jeti after many years using Futaba, I can say that your assumptions, prejudices and falsehoods are your issue. They are certainly not concerns of anyone who is a Jeti user and certainly not those of us in the UK who enjoy consistent and reliable support, stockholding and delivery times from the distributor, who, I might add seems able to grow the business year on year on the back of Jeti sales. If you don't want to use Jeti, then fine, your choice, but your remarks are coming over with the inference that nobody else should use it either. PS - my oldest Jeti ESC in current use was bought in 1997. Maybe you are doing something wrong... Maybe next time I will re-consider Jeti as I have the same doubts (justified or not) about the future of Mpx radios. They have already dropped the 'new' Profi and all but one version of the Royal SX. Why change? I don't like all my eggs in one basket, which they are at present so I don't want to add to my existing 30+ Mpx 2.4 receivers, all of which are in use.. As for Jeti ESCs, rest assured I do know what I am doing, having flown electrics ever since they first appeared, starting with a Fred Militky Silentius free flight in the late 1950's. .

Posted by Martian on 24/06/2020 17:03:32: I do at every one that flies over even dash out the house to look and I very much doubt I'm on my own I do if I hear an 'unusual' aircraft sound. There ARE positives. Barrie's chuck gliders are brilliant, and I once spent a couple of years, entirely single-handedly, doing model planes as part of some kids doing a Duke of Edinburgh Award. The comment about a group buying their own flying site is worth looking at. An RC flying field only needs a few acres preferably away from any housing sites.

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 24/06/2020 11:20:06: I am not sure how other traders are doing but its been really busy here. Jan/Feb were stone dead, but the last few months have been extremely busy compared to the last few years. I think the high cost of Japanese engines is contributory but certainly its been ok for us. I know others i the model trade have also been rushed off their feet as idle hands start building models. Model Technics on the other hand have been slow as people couldnt fly so no one was using fuel. I think Gary is right when it comes to young members. The allure of instant gratification from electronic devices is very tempting, but it also requires little effort on the part of the parent as they can plonk jr in front of the tv and its job done. On numerous occasions we have had youngsters visit the field with dad to see what its all about only for dad to turn around and say its too time consuming as 'i go to the pub on saturdays, ill get you an xbox instead'. And no i didnt make that up, one actually said that. There is also the nanny state argument that kids cant buy fuel, knives, glue etc so couldnt build a model off their own back even if they wanted to. To counter Richards point though, we need to encourage new people to come in to the hobby. If we dont, there is no longer a business case for making any of the stuff we all need. Also, why would we not want to bring new people in? There is certainly no reason to NOT want new people in. Even fishing, not long ago more popular than even WATCHING football (both live and on TV) has greatly declined. It's all about effort-free instant gratification. But then older people have no doubt been whingeing about 'modern yoof' for thousands of years. There isn't an answer. If someone wants to do it they will find, even more so today with the internet, the answers to any questions they might have.. But trying to encourage people do to something that they are not greatly interested is futile. Who looks up at a 'real' plane now?

Posted by Nigel R on 24/06/2020 14:22:44: I realise this might essentially be discussing a moderating tactic/approach, but I'm going to ask anyway. Why are departing members allowed to delete all their old posts? Or perhaps, why do moderators do it for them? I've never seen this done on any other forum. I think this place is poorer because of it, too. Lost of useful stuff has gone in some of the deleted posts. It is a shame but the amount of storage used has to be kept within reasonable bounds. Additionally the more data there is the longer the computer server will take to find what you want.

Posted by Nigel R on 24/06/2020 10:46:48: People have been saying words to that effect since I can remember. Don't forget there are currently 36k members and 780 clubs in the BMFA. The shops going out of business has been done to death, some adapted to current shopping practices and some went bust. As has the IC / electric topic, I think. As has "How can we encourage new flyers?" Unless we have commercial interests in the hobby why should we care?

Posted by Danny Fenton on 24/06/2020 09:45:43: Hi Eric, I chopped some more plastic tubing and wrapped it in masking tape, likewise a short section of alloy tube. Dab of paint and think they will do just nicely. Hi Richard, I am a big fan of Camm's work, but there is probably a prettier "similar" biplane, the Fairey Fantom which would be a nice generic model. Cheers Danny I did look at the Fantom(e) Incidentally I live in the valley of the River Test, Hampshire. The Romsey to Stockbridge road had a large number of aviation company heads or well-known aviation figures living there. Possibly because they were all keen fly fishers for trout, as am I. Both Hawkers (the 'other' one gained a Victoria Cross, is honoured by a stained glass window in a local church, and was eventually shot down by Richthofen), Sopwith, Fairey, Bowden (the developer of stranded aviation control cables), JW Dunne, of the tailless biplanes, later head of what became 'Farnborough, and author of the perceptive and haunting book 'Sunshine and the Dry Fly', Hubert Broad, DH test plot, and Alex Henshaw, racer and Vickers-Armstrong test pilot, and for a couple of years A V Roe.

Posted by Ron Gray on 24/06/2020 09:04:52: Jeti UK Quite a few F3A guys use Jeti equipment both radio gear and ESCs, they don't seem to have problems. Here we go again - 'As for OpenTx, I'm totally put off by all the dopey, ever self-promoting fanboyism over a mere machine' - Yawn! They do, you know, they just can't resist - "Closer to OpenTx except maybe for Multiplex" - MattyB on this thread.  Incidentally the founders of OpenTx were  greatly influenced by the functionality of the already existing  Multiplex  OS. Thus Multiplex  is not 'similar' to OpenTx,  it's the other way around. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 24/06/2020 10:06:10

Posted by Danny Fenton on 22/06/2020 19:50:22: Not entirely sure where you are going with that Richard? Camm's influence can be seen through all the Hawker designs, which included biplanes, monoplanes, and one of the fastest piston engined fighters able to take on a Mig, right through to the VTOL Harrier. Not sure I would equate Hawkers to Leyland? Cheers Danny I do like the Hawker biplanes But there's no denying that they all look very similar. So if I was making a model of one (and I have been tempted) I would make a 'generic' one incorporating the 'prettiest' features of any of them. Austin Cambridge, Morris Oxford, or Hawker Hart, Hawker Fury, - any of them will do. Incidentally the Hawker biplanes were mostly used for dropping leaflets printed in English, which of course they didn't understand, on 'rebellious' middle east tribesmen equipped with obsolete British rifles we ourselves had suppled to them

Jeti radios are nice. Would I buy one? No. I don't care about the prices but: 1) Jeti radios only exist at all because of an EU 'Small countries development grant' so justified or not I have personal doubts about their continued existence. 2) There is no large and long established UK agent and those small agents that do exist are constantly changing. So among other problems with such agents,  such as "who's the best small agent this week?" I have doubts about getting it fixed if it breaks. 3) Over the years all the several Jeti ESCs I have purchased have melted sooner or later even though used well within spec. So I have doubts about Jeti's technical competence and quality control. 4)The constant promotion of Jeti by a well-knows US agent on a well-known US forum indicates that a Jeti installation, can be as complicated and can involve as many boxes as an Apollo Moon Mission. What do I use? Multiplex, and have done so for year. But their quality, though 'adequate' is not as good as it used to be. Alternatives? Only one - The Futaba T18SZ. It is more than double the price of a Multiplex Evo, Royal, or Royal SX But other than OpenTx it is the only one that comes even remotely close to their functionality. As for OpenTx, I'm totally put off by all the dopey, ever self-promoting fanboyism over a mere machine. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 24/06/2020 09:01:28

Posted by leccyflyer on 22/06/2020 17:27:29: I've no experience of using Banggood or Aliexpress and indeed, I did say that my first experience with Hobbyking would be my last, following their complete failure in customer service. However I gave them another chance and had some better experiences before the current running down of stock, with their covering film, the Frsky receivers, some budget motors and Escs and a number of Durafly ARFs -though I would advise swapping out the servos from those models. Those are all things which are not generally available from most UK model shops - T9Hobbies is an exception in supplying the Frsky receivers. I looked with great interest at HobbyKing when they first opened the UK warehouse. Not because I wanted stuff from only that warehouse but because it made me think HobbyKing was more that just far away China selling to far away USA therefore no concern of mine. Among other planes I was, and still am, interested in balsa and/or composite EDFs, be they kits (preferably) or ARTFs . And HobbyKing looked to be a more 'advanced' alternative to the (good) Dutch RBC balsa/ply kits. So I bought a MIG 15 intended for a 90mm fan. The fuseage weighed a ton and was made out of 'orrible 'chopped strand mat'. So that was the end of that and for me the end of HobbyKing, though like you I usually give everyone 'two chances' but not this time. Re Durafly. There have been several of their foam EDF Vampires at our site and they fly very well. But they seem to need constant 'fiddling' with between flights, due to their obvious poor quality, such as neither the retracts nor the three servo that operate them are positively located with regard to each other so the uc locks rarely work. I can't be doing with stuff like that and I would rather build from scratch that 'improve' an ARTF. No more than I need to 'improve' my car , watch, or my TV (which comes back to my earlier comment about particularly low quality in model plane stuff). For motors both 'prop' and EDF I now use Hacker almost exclusively They can be ordered direct from their factory in Germany, arrive in three or four days and are of excellent quality. T9 HobbySport. I have no interest in FrSky gear (so far) but having looked at their site, I find they sell lots of other stuff too, and I hear good reports about them. So in future they will be probably be one of my 'go to' suppliers.

Posted by fly boy3 on 22/06/2020 21:13:57: I have enjoyed this thread, but not what it was originally about. I have been re educated on the dangers of props and many words on saftey. I don't think we would be entrenched in the original thoughts (ic v elecrtic danger) if we we not in lock down lol .We would all be out flying. We might as well talk about being knocked down by an old ic car or a modern electric one. Having said that it is always good to be reminded of prop danger. Cheersi Re-educated. Yes. When flying or just 'ground handling' a model we need to CONSTANTLY bear in mind that a '90' size or above model, be it glow, petrol, or electric has an engine as least as powerful as the average rotary mower. And the prop, particularly if it is one of the popular carbon-filled ones, is nearly as strong as the steel mower blade. And small models can be dangerous too. And ir is all totally unshielded. Large model helicopters are even more dangerous, even '40' sized ones can be lethal. And they can go in unexpected directions so can't be pointed 'away' from people.. So this thread, even if it only makes a small proportion of us keep all that in mind, and whatever its diversions, is worth having.

Posted by Peter G Simpson on 21/06/2020 22:04:36: Posted by Danny Fenton on 21/06/2020 21:47:17: You don't see many build Brian's P-40, how does it perform, and what engine?? Thanks Danny, I built it because I really wanted to find out how the P40 flys, but as a ‘sports’ model based on the Taylor P40, so there is very little scale detail on my model, but the outline is as per BT’s design. I wanted to see if the short tail would be an issue but it really isn’t and it flys really well and the flaps are really effective. I fitted an Irvine 61 2 stroke an it is plenty powerful enough for a decent climb, though the 12” prop looks very silly. The stock silencer fits perfectly within the chin cowling. Even with the lightweight engine I had to put weight in the tail for balancing. She came out at 8Lbs ready to fly with Robert 615 twisty turny retracts. Real nice that. As for Hawker biplanes they all look the same. I suspect they are where British Leyland got the idea of 'badge engineering' from

Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 22/06/2020 15:45:20: Posted by Tim Kearsley on 22/06/2020 09:02:38: The only comment I would have some doubt about is comparing the life of an engine to that of a LiPo - that's not a fair comparison at all. The LiPo is the fuel and lasts probably a gallon or two of glow fuel I would guess? Oooops, sorry, you are quite right. Got carried away there! Actually, you are way too generous! I once worked out that one lipo in a Wot4 (about £40-50 each), given about 200 cycles/10 min flights would equate to, roughly, 6 x 5 litre bottles of fuel costing, in total, about £120 for my IC Irvine 46. That said, one lipo per model is hardly practical, as I’m sure you would agree, so that would probably be, in realistic terms, at least £120 EP versus £360 IC in that particular case. Glo fuel cost is not an issue for me, especially as I have nothing bigger than 90 4-stroke but it’s easy to see why petrol has been gaining favour for dedicated IC fans when the price of petrol is a fraction of that of glo fuels and why those who would rather avoid the much cheaper but more volatile and smelly fuel have gone electric! The foreseeable future of model power seems to be potentially volatile and non-smelly electric versus potentially volatile and very smelly petrol. As for me, I suppose that I’m largely a Luddite hanging on by his fingertips, items which I need to look after! Neither glow fuel not petrol is notably smelly unless you deliberately sniff the can. Saying it is reminds me of those people who never noticed smoking before but produced fake coughs and waved their arms about when smoking became non-PC. BTW: I'm not a smoker and never have been.

Posted by Tim Kearsley on 22/06/2020 15:09:33: Posted by Richard Clark 2 I see so many 'pro electric' people saying that. And from the line of your post I quoted you are one. They are either surrounded by idiots or are grossly exggerating I can assure you I'm not exaggerating! I could name the usual culprits, though I obviously won't. I will however be sure to pass on your opinion to them! Tim. The usual "culprits" as you choose to tactfully call them are the guys who continually mess with the two needles or the needle and airbleed. I've haven't touched any of mine for years as there is no need to. I haven't messed with the lawnmower ones or the car electronic injection system either As for electrics if I'm not flying for a month or so I 'storage charge' them. Some are five years old and still fine.

Posted by perttime on 22/06/2020 14:47:52: ^ Got point there.... What is the prop shaft diameter of a Cox Tee Dee .049? As I remember it's just a small diameter but quite long US thread bolt that screws into the crankshaft. with a little spinner shaped 'washer' about 13mm diameter. But he's not saying he wants to use the same spinner he originally used.

Posted by Cuban8 on 22/06/2020 13:05:14: Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 22/06/2020 05:06:11: My problem with HobbyKing, eBay and so on on is the often very dodgy quality. Cheap servos of a make you've never heard of, fake 'Futaba' servos from Banggood, piano wire like limp spaghetti, ARTFs made of out of splintery over-fertilized estate grown balsa and near zero glue so it all falls apart on the first bumpy landing, undercarriages that rip out, imitation 'carbon' wing joining rods, etc etc. etc. Many of us model flyers accept an 'internet' quality that we would never accept in any other field. The problem is NOT 'real' shops, whether with or without an internet presence charging more for the same thing. It's the sea of utter junk from some big far away suppliers. Would you trust this junk in an airliner you were flying in? No, so don't trust it in a model plane either - unlike a 15 quid portable music player they are airborne vehicles that don't just stop working if a component fails. Places such as Sussex, Dumfries, and Pegasus, or your local model shop, are run by people who have at least SOME interest in model planes Wow! that's quite a scathing indictment of internet sales. I agree that the buyer needs to be aware of poor quality goods, but TBH even buying from a real shop doesn't give you immunity from less than ideal quality stuff. The number of times we've read some kit/ARTF reviews that skirt around supplied junk accessories and refuse to condemn the distributors for not replacing unsuitable or very poor quality horns, linkages, etc has always been a problem IMHO. I remember very many years ago in a UK magazine (don't remember which one) a reader's letter (no email then) took the editor to task that no bad reviews of kits or products were ever published. The response was along the lines of "we'd never publish a bad review, but would return the product to the supplier with the advice to correct the problems and resubmit" - well that's OK, but of course in the mean time, whatever it was might still be in the shops. Let's not even go anywhere near the issue of budget petrol engines available everywhere, and totally useless 'field losing' silencers. Most consumer items and modelling stuff that I buy now is increasingly ordered on-line, particularly so now with the present epidemic - quite why people traipse around shops for stuff is beyond me. I think many internet sales outfits thoroughly deserve scathing indictments. And of course 'brick and mortar' shops sometimes sell junk too. But with those you can go and look if in doubt. Or just buy something else you do have faith in. Or of course be more discriminating to start with - the only thoroughly satisfactory ARTFs I've seen are Great Planes ones, or if you like foamies, Multiplex. And their prices reflect it, but nobody ever said spending money on model planes is a good way of saving for your retirement or said that it is a low cost hobby.. And the two are not mutually exclusive. Sussex, for example, sell at lot via the internet and do a roaring 'walk in'[ trade too, at least pre coronavirus. Then there are small things. If I want a bottle of aliphatic glue, a fuel tank, and a small packet of bolts I would much rather drive the 17 miles each way (maybe with a pint on the way back), to Spire Models than faff around ordering them on on the internet and then finding a note three days later through the front door saying as I wasn't in I can collect it from the depot 'tomorrow'. As for magazines , what you say is the reason I haven't bought a model plane magazine for years.

Posted by Tosh McCaber on 21/06/2020 17:44:11: I'm converting my old little pattern plane, Cox Tee Dee .049 powered, to electric. The present spinner is 11/4" diameter. Can anyone guide me to where I can buy a spinner designed for a replacement electric motor? Thx! I think you will find almost any 'regular' type of spinner will fit just as well on a typical electric motor prop adapter as it will on a glow engine.

Posted by leccyflyer on 22/06/2020 07:35:38: Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 22/06/2020 05:06:11: My problem with HobbyKing, eBay and so on on is the often very dodgy quality. Cheap servos of a make you've never heard of, fake 'Futaba' servos from Banggood, piano wire like limp spaghetti, ARTFs made of out of splintery over-fertilized estate grown balsa and near zero glue so it all falls apart on the first bumpy landing, undercarriages that rip out, imitation 'carbon' wing joining rods, etc etc. etc. Many of us model flyers accept an 'internet' quality that we would never accept in any other field. The problem is NOT 'real' shops, whether with or without an internet presence charging more for the same thing. It's the sea of utter junk from some big far away suppliers. Would you trust this junk in an airliner you were flying in? No, so don't trust it in a model plane either - unlike a 15 quid portable music player they are airborne vehicles that don't just stop working if a component fails. Places such as Sussex, Dumfries, and Pegasus, or your local model shop, are run by people who have at least SOME interest in model planes Hobbyking does seem to have gone down a lot in terms of the stock that they carry, and I understand there has been a change of ownership/management. However they did used to carry some good stuff, of good quality - their covering film IMO is second to none -every bit as good as Profilm and miles ahead of traditional Solarfilm. Their budget motors and ESCs generally worked well and were perfectly fit for purpose, as were the Frsky radio systems that they made accessible to a large market and which were not stocked by high street shops. It appears that stock in these have run right down recently and retrenched to the global warehouse, requiring Frsky users to source their gear from other sources. I found T9Hobbies to be excellent in that regard. In terms of being run by people with an interest in model aeroplanes they certainly used to have upfront involvement by active flying modellers and designers - people such as Tom Hunt and Stuart Warne were both involved with the company in designing, implementing and promoting some of their models and equipment. I am sure you are quoting your own experience exactly but in my experience some suppliers are very different. Banggood for example is a 'general trading company' and sells near enough everything your 'household' is ever likely to need, Though little of it appears to be of decent quality. They sell fake Futaba servos too. I have noticed stock levels of model plane stuff going down almost everywhere. I suspect that in much of the world (the western world at least) interest in 'craft' stuff, including models of all sorts, indeed anything that requires even a little effort, is declining.

Posted by Tim Kearsley on 22/06/2020 09:02:38: ......For me, I only fly electric now, because the pros of electric outweigh the cons compared to IC......... .......I just think of the number of times I see people at our patch twiddling needles, flicking props, tweaking this and that on their glow engine - they're still at it when I return from a ten-minute flight, and they're still at it when I return from a second flight! Tim. I see so many 'pro electric' people saying that. And from the line of your post I quoted you are one. They are either surrounded by idiots or are grossly exggerating In my personal experience the glow engines I use (various OS both two and four stroke and two RCV 58 CDs) start as easily as my car, need less fiddling about with (you don't even have to check the water and oil levels), never need the needles adjusted after the first half hour or less initial running in, and have NEVER stopped unless I command it. Am I particularly pro glow? No. Out of about 30 flyable planes I've got slightly more glow planes than electric. The latest one I built (I don't buy ARTF's) is electric. Safety? As I previously said I don't think there's much difference.

Posted by Peter Jenkins on 22/06/2020 00:24:31: Good call Richard. One small point. Being an American kit all the kwiklinks etc. use US threads. On my Spitfire I replaced the whole lot with European metric ones to be compatible with what's in my odds and ends box. You should do it at least on the throttle ball link if you use one as a SLEC, Hirobo heli, or similar one from your local shop or wherever will have a 'tight' metric thread on the plastic socket part.

Posted by Andy48 on 21/06/2020 22:35:36: Eh? There is far more complexity to setting up electric? Since when? Battery, motor speed controller and propeller. First decide on the power required and choose the motor and battery combination. I standardise on battery sizes so only have a few. No more difficult than deciding which IC motor to choose. Look at the maximum current of the motor and make sure the speed controller is capable of handling that. Props? Electric really isn't at all fussy, a wattmeter is all that is really needed to see which prop is required. I really don't understand the wiring and connection errors, the wiring is no more complicated than the average 9 year old handles in a science lesson. Burn outs??? Fires??? Get real. Never had either. However, I do see many struggle with a new IC motor down at the field tinkering with them to get them running properly with fingers extremely close to the liquidiser blade. I've also seen a transmitter or two knocked when taking a model onto the field with the IC engine running. You buy an OS glow engine and you may have to adjust the main needle a couple of times. When doing the short running in and maybe if you use a fuel of different composition. The idle needle probably never. They are as reliable, easy starting, and as unfussy as your car engine if you don't constantly mess with them. Hooking it up is a just couple of pipes, one to the carb and one to the exhaust... Electric? You have to make sure the ESC and battery are both ok for the motor. Get it wrong and something melts. Just changing the prop to a different size can cause that. You may have to solder on connectors too. And all three are usually assembled by some ten year old who doesn't care, and probably never even knows, if they work or not. I'm happy with either (except for the average child made ESCs, which tend to have a short life even used well within their specs). But electrics are FAR more complicated. Easy for you and me perhaps, but not for everyone - just look at the questions on here to see that. Safety? I don't think there's much difference. But at least a glow plane is unlikely to unexpectedly fly off from your coffee table and hit your TV as one of my small electrics once did. Remember, if something can happen it almost certainly will sooner or later no matter how 'expert' you are.

My problem with HobbyKing, eBay and so on on is the often very dodgy quality. Cheap servos of a make you've never heard of, fake 'Futaba' servos from Banggood, piano wire like limp spaghetti, ARTFs made of out of splintery over-fertilized estate grown balsa and near zero glue so it all falls apart on the first bumpy landing, undercarriages that rip out, imitation 'carbon' wing joining rods, etc etc. etc. Many of us model flyers accept an 'internet' quality that we would never accept in any other field. The problem is NOT 'real' shops, whether with or without an internet presence charging more for the same thing. It's the sea of utter junk from some big far away suppliers. Would you trust this junk in an airliner you were flying in? No, so don't trust it in a model plane either - unlike a 15 quid portable music player they are airborne vehicles that don't just stop working if a component fails. Places such as Sussex, Dumfries, and Pegasus, or your local model shop, are run by people who have at least SOME interest in model planes

Posted by Paul Marsh on 21/06/2020 16:00:47: I want to run a poll to see how people are buying modeling items in 2020. As there are no shows and model shops are using social distancing, although open are not the once aladdin caves , so the options are: Buying from model shop direct; Buying from a model shop online; Buying from internet only vendor (eg, Hobbyking; Banggood, etc) Buying from classifieds , eg. BMFA, Facebook Buying from club members; Buying from eBay/Gumtree. I live near Southampton, which is a town of about 300,000 people. It used to have about six model shops but over the years all of them have closed. Now I mostly use Sussex Model Centre over the internet but of course doing that you can't 'browse', even if 'The Virus' didn't exist. I also use Spire Models near Salisbury quite frequently. He has no internet presence, but very extensive stock, often of unusual and interesting things from Europe, But he is currently closed due to 'The Virus' (yawn). For the last few years he is only open three days a week. And apparently he doesn't need the money so I have no idea whether he will reopen or not. I've never used HobbyKing, Banggood, eBay or anything similar, nor have I ever bought anything via the BMFA, fellow club members, or social media.