Durafly EDF Vampire

[Daithi O Buitigh]

To me, having to pay postage on an item being returned under warranty is the same as having to pay to travel to my closest model shop.

That's a 40 mile round trip by train and I can imagine the reaction if I asked them to reimburse the rail fare

[Ian Jones]

Mine has just arrived .

So those of you with some time in on this model - what have you found to be the best setup re control surface movements and CG?

Thanks, Ian

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Ian Jones on 29/08/2012 13:35:34:

Mine has just arrived .

So those of you with some time in on this model - what have you found to be the best setup re control surface movements and CG?

Oh, and what adhesive - I think I will be going for the good old epoxy.

Thanks, Ian

[graeme jones]

Garbo - The OFT booklet "A Guide For Businesses On Distance Selling", para. 3.57 states "If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances".

Ian - Instructions show balance at 311mm from the nose, but I've found it better to have it nearer 300 i.e. 10 mm forward.

Graeme

PS don't fly it until you've stiffened the booms to avoid elevator control reversal. Otherwise it WILL fly into the ground even though you hold full up!

Edited By graeme jones on 30/08/2012 17:36:49

[Ian Jones]

Posted by roger hymans 1 on 20/02/2012 16:53:11:

<snip>...

Box marked as a Vampire Mk.6 -no such animal - its either a Mk5 or 9. Someone had also indelibly painted a red ejector seat triangle on both sides of the cockpit - no single seat Vampire had an ejector seat - I know I flew them - also the word "Jet" in the triangle - why do they do these things? Overall then very satisfied with this amazing value for money quickly delivered nice to fly EDF jet. I strongly recommend it

Roger I presume they have misquoted the FB6 which though not designated as a "Mark" does fit in sequentially with the other variants. Silly how they get these things wrong though isn't it.

Thanks Graeme. Did you fit CF along the whole length of the booms at at certain critical points?

How much movement in the control surfaces did you go for?

Thanks, Ian

[David P Williams]

Came back from holiday to find email from HK saying these were back in stock - 40 units. By the time I logged on they had 2 left so bagged the last but one.

£81.34 + £7.80 Parcelforce 24 delivery = £89.14. Select Paypal, it comes up as $143.68, which Paypal translates to £93.65. Had definitely ordered from UK store. Emailed HK customer support and they seem to think this is normal. Is it me??? Did I do something wrong?

David

[Ian Jones]

Their website is a mixed up mess and I personally have had enough of it for the reasons Captain Slog has mentioned and others too but mostly the hotch potch currency display. You change it to pounds but some pages still display dollars - you make a purchase in pounds and it's shown in dollars - side menu items are shown in dollars but I've asked for pounds.

HK, if you are looking in then please get it sorted. If you do then I for one will be more likely to return.

Oh, by the way, referring back to earlier posts XH292 was not an FB6 (single seat fighter bomber like VT871) it was a T11 (two seat trainer - with ejection seats)

Edited By Ian Jones on 30/08/2012 21:07:14

[Garbo]

Posted by Ian Jones on 30/08/2012 21:06:22:

Their website is a mixed up mess and I personally have had enough of it for the reasons Captain Slog has mentioned and others too but mostly the hotch potch currency display. You change it to pounds but some pages still display dollars - you make a purchase in pounds and it's shown in dollars - side menu items are shown in dollars but I've asked for pounds.

HK, if you are looking in then please get it sorted. If you do then I for one will be more likely to return.

Oh, by the way, referring back to earlier posts XH292 was not an FB6 (single seat fighter bomber like VT871) it was a T11 (two seat trainer - with ejection seats)

Edited By Ian Jones on 30/08/2012 21:07:14

Apparently the whole site is getting a revamp so the difficulty of clicking the "UK tab" will be around for a while

[Garbo]

Posted by graeme jones on 30/08/2012 17:07:57:

Garbo - The OFT booklet "A Guide For Businesses On Distance Selling", para. 3.57 states "If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances".

Ian - Instructions show balance at 311mm from the nose, but I've found it better to have it nearer 300 i.e. 10 mm forward.

Graeme

PS don't fly it until you've stiffened the booms to avoid elevator control reversal. Otherwise it WILL fly into the ground even though you hold full up!

Edited By graeme jones on 30/08/2012 17:36:49

Check with Martin Lewis the consumer advisor guru. The shop must return the cost of getting the item to you, you must pay for the return to them.

I am only repeating what the experts tell me every Thursday on 5Live.

[graeme jones]

Garbo - what you say is correct if you decide to return goods as unwanted. In fact many reputable companies will pay for return postage. These goods (the ESC) are faulty so the business should pay all extra costs. As a comment on the quality of Hobbyking goods in general, many forum posts both here and elsewhere refer to such faults as burnt-out ESC's. If the item was bought from Hong Kong then the UK DSR's don't apply. The cost of returning goods to Hong Kong is prohibitive so many simply buy a new one. As soon as HK opened a UK warehouse they became subject to the DSR's. If faults are as common as suggested by forum posts they may be reluctant to pay for return postage because it will cost them a lot, but they cannot ignore the regulations unless they want Trading Standards to prosecute them.

Graeme

[Daithi O Buitigh]

The cost for returning faulty goods for replacement or warranty is down to the purchaser. The OFT booklet specifically states that. The fact that some dealers may refund or arrange free pick up doesn't alter the fact.

As I asked earlier, do you expect you nearest model shop to reimburse your travelling expenses if you have to return an item?

[graeme jones]

Daithi - the OFT booklet is a guide for businesses (not for consumers/purchasers). When it says "you" it means the business. Your point about model shops is not relevant here (although in common law you might well have a claim against a shop for the expense of returning faulty goods). We are talking mail/internet purchases to which the Distance Selling Regulations and Electronic Commerce Regulations apply. I repeat - A Guide For Businesses On Distance Selling, published by the Office of Fair Trade, paragraph 3.57 states "If the goods are faulty or don't comply with the contract, you will have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances". These regulations were made to stop businesses ripping off their customers in ways such as charging for the return of faulty goods. Not just postage but "admin fees" and such-like.

Graeme

[Daithi O Buitigh]

Personally I think the point regarding model shops is completely relevant - in either case YOU are shouldering the expense of returning the item (whether it be by mail or by public transport)

The actual regulation is "The retailer's terms and conditions should say who pays for returning goods. If they don't, then the retailer has to pay, not the customer."

Now if the website says you have to pay for return (which the HK website DOES say) then they are covered under the Sale of Goods Act

[Ian Jones]

Well mine is almost ready for it's maiden flight, just need to setup the control throws and since no-one is forthcoming with their setup it looks like I will have to guess.

I've sat the pilot on a booster cushion:

I've strengthened the booms:

Tyres rub on the underciage legs, hmm I'll see how that pans out:

I had the usual problem with the short aileron horn screws too. CG is set and the GensAce Lipos seem to be giving plenty of go. ESC/Motor/Fan passed taxi testing on the driveway so please can I have some nice calm weather on Sunday.

Did I ask what control throws people are using?

Ian

[graeme jones]

Ian - sorry, I forgot about the control throws. Mine is set up as shown in the instructions but I fly it with rates on 60%.

Daithi - I agree completely with what you say, but only for goods you decide you do not want. For FAULTY goods para. 3.57 applies and the retailer must pay "whatever the circumstances".

Imagine that you need a new washing machine. You do some research and find that the one you want is cheapest from the website of a large well known retailer. You buy it online, it arrives and works fine for a week, then there's a bang and a cloud of smoke and it stops working. Would you pay to return it? This is what happened to my ESC but on a larger scale. If Hobbyking say you have to pay for the return of faulty goods they are wrong.

Graeme

[Ian Jones]

Posted by graeme jones on 01/09/2012 08:30:45:

Ian - sorry, I forgot about the control throws. Mine is set up as shown in the instructions but I fly it with rates on 60%.

<Snip>

Graeme

Hmm, something odd here but I can't find any control throw settings in the very brief instructions that came with mine. The good quality paper, photos and English language can't hide the fact that there is little of use in the instruction booklet. Then again if I need new glasses then I'd be happy to be told where in the booklet these settings are mentioned.

The settings you used at Old Warden look good so those would do the job. I can probably estimate a reasonable setup but if there are recommended initial setups from the manufacturer I prefer to use them as starting points - especially for the elevator on foamies as this is often quite a small movement.

What are the recommended throws in your instructions Graeme?

Ian

(Hesitates over the "Add Posting" button once more to read the instructions yet again, nope the info isn't there )

[Garbo]

Posted by Ian Jones on 31/08/2012 22:32:22:

Well mine is almost ready for it's maiden flight, just need to setup the control throws and since no-one is forthcoming with their setup it looks like I will have to guess.

I've sat the pilot on a booster cushion:

Ian

Ian is that the night fighter version

or are you hiding from the neighbours?

[Ian Jones]

Yep, it was dark when I took the photos ! I'd just finished putting it together and taxi tested it on the drive so it was time for to get the camera out. NF10, now there's an interesting thought.

[graeme jones]

Ian- sorry again. I'll be more precise. Use the outside hole of both servo horns and surface horns as shown in the instructions (use a magnifying glass to look at the photos) then use low rate of about 60%. Flew mine again today (using a Plush 60A ESC) in a strong gusty wind and had to go to high rates to control the landing.

[Ian Jones]

Aha, thanks Graeme, I see it now, was looking for numbers!

Looks like tomorrow is a good day for test flight so I'll take off with those settings and have a few other rates settings as backups.

Thanks, Ian

[Capt Kremen]

Any hints or tips on kit assembly? (My 'Vampire' box sits waiting patiently in front of me).

i.e. Did 'assemblers' use any home-made jigs to ensure booms and tailplane are rigged correctly to wings(s) and fuselage pod?

Are the incidences wing/tailplane critical or 'just stick it together as is'?

What is the best adhesive to use on the model - epoxy (used sparingly to avoid adding too much weight), uhu-por or similar foam friendly glue, or a foam friendly superglue?

Good luck with the 'maiden' Ian, eager to hear how you get on.

[Ian Jones]

Thanks for the good wishes CK. I'd better have a proving flight before I say too much .

What I will say at this stage is that I dry fitted everything first & it all looked good and true so I just had to repeat that when I assembled it. I didn't like the idea of fitting the tailplane (that's the horizontal stabilizer for those that speak American) to one boom before even fitting that boom to the wing. In the end I fitted one boom and when that was dry, the other boom and both sides of the tailplane. This would have given the opportunity to adjust the alignment had it been necessary - which it wasn't. No jig used.

[Piers Bowlan]

Hi Ian, I set the C of G on mine as per the instructions, ie 311mm from the nose of the aircraft. From the moment the model left my hand it was a roller coaster ride with the balance point obviously way too far aft. After a short trawl on the internet I found that 290mm from the nose to be closer to the correct C of G position on the Durafly Vampire. I havn't had a chance to fly mine again since but I will report back tomorrow morning when I have. For info I used + - 8mm elevator with 30% expo. I can't comment if this was good or not as the aircraft was unflyable because of the aft C of G!

Hi Capt Kremen, I tried UHU Por for the first time. Big mistake. I found it took forever to dry and was very messy- perhaps it is just me! In the past I have used regular Cyano (not even foam friendly) on EPO (with kicker) to very good effect. I think I will stick to Cyano in future (if you will pardon the pun). I have been told that Epoxy does not stick too well to EPO despite looking like it has stuck fast. I have not tried epoxy myself on foam.

[Ian Jones]

Ooh, I've used epoxy . The CG point must be quite critical when it's stated so precisely to the millimetre (311) rather than a nice round 310mm.

My maiden is scheduled for the afternoon so I'll be looking in before I leave to see how you went on Piers.

[Piers Bowlan]

I wouldn't worry too much about epoxy and EPO foam, some people use it all the time. I have heard anecdotally that it tends to break in the event of an arrival (crash). Maybe that is a good thing as it stops the foam itself from breaking? As long as the epoxy does not 'let go' in the air!

With your maiden scheduled for this afternoon I felt that I should brave the elements and test fly mine again, despite the rain. No pressure then! I set the C of G with a Great Planes balancer to 290mm from the nose of the aircraft. This corresponds to 17mm infront of the booms (on the underside of the wings of course). That is 17mm and not 2mm as printed, in very small print, on the 'instructions'. Looking at it another way, 70mm from the LE, aligned with the booms (hope that is clear!)

It flew brilliantly! Very smooth with a spirited climb on the 4s 2200mAh LiPo. I set the elevator to + - 12mm and the ailerons to +8mm -5mm. As others have observed it can fly very slowly, infact with a little slope lift in just five knots of wind I was having trouble getting it down until I slowed it right up.

For imfo I only flew it for about three minutes as my transmitter and I were getting rather wet in the persistent rain and anyway the Vampire was never an all weather fighter! I only used 920mA from the LiPo. I have the ARF version and flew it without retracts (long grass) so a bigger battery would be an advantage to avoid having to add lead to the nose as I did. I also fitted a Plush 60A ESC which is a bit overkill but I have heard that there can be overheating issues with the supplied ESC in the BNF version. Probably not a problem on a cold wet day like today.