Model Diesel

[Chris Channon]

Ello all, why can't my model diesel run on diesel from the local garage? or can it ?

Anyone know what else i would need to add to the diesel, ie ether etc.

Thanks all

Chris.C.

[Doug Ireland]

Hi Chris,

The only similarity between a model Diesel engine and a full size (like in your car) is they are both compression ignition. Full size diesel fuel has a flash point about 40 degrees C when properly atomised whereas it is the Ether in model fuel that does the ignition bit so regular diesel from the garage won't work at all. In the good old days I used to mix my own in the following ratio; equal parts of Paraffin, Castor Oil and Ether. The last two you can buy from most Chemists in town.

Doug

[Ultymate]

Most chemists take a dim view of anyone tryng to purchase ether these days as drug dealers use as part of the cutting process with the drugs so don't be suprised if you get some weird looks. There are sources if you look around and model diesel fuel is still available from some shops and Model Technics make three different grades. If you want to brew your own don't use the castor oil as supplied by the local chemist you need castrol "M" if you can find it, very hard these days or a lot of guys now use one of the Klotz oils I believe a castor/synthetic mix.

[Doug Ireland]

I think the chemists have a Log Book to record sales of these types of chemicals; same as if you try and buy meths.

[Matt]

I might be getting to this thread a little on the late side...but.

Can I use anything else as a lube in home brew as these oils are not available to me localy and getting oil male order just ain't worth the hastle. Can I use, for example, a really light sinthetic two stroke motorbike oil?

Matt

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Matt]

Up in the wild wild north...where I would have to order a pallet of castrol 'm' if I wanted half a pint (Keith, Moray to be more helpfull*). Or drive a 100 mile round trip to a model shop that might have some ready made diesel...or use castor from the chemist.

I haven't even spoken to the chemist about ether yet. I'd rather make my own fuel than buy ready made stuff...just coz I'm funny like that.

As for 'use it on an old engine'... thats all I've got is one old engine. An Allen Mercuy RC 15 from ebay.

Whats wrong with medicinal castor anyway is it really bad or does it just give a drop in performance drop.

Cheers

Matt

*Back end of nowhere but nice and quiet.

[Bert]

You don't need to use castor, ordinary mineral oil from the garage is ok for diesels. You can also buy synthetic oils from the garage which will be better than either mineral or castor.

You can use diesel from the garage instead of the parrafin, it makes the exhaust extra oily though, and makes the 'plane more grubby.

You have to use ether, i don't think there's any alernative to that. You can get it from the chemist and if you do, tell him that you want the absolute cheapest grade he can get. You don't want anaesthetic grade ether, it is very expensive.

I don't think you can get amyl nitrate from the chemist any more because some people use it as a stimulant, but you can get iso-propyl-nitrate which needs a bit more, about another percent or so to work the same.

Most sports engines will run all right without the nitrate, but not at their peak performance.

I think that if you haven't had much experience with diesels you should try to get some Model Technics D1000 fuel and get used to starting and running your engine on that. Diesel are a little more tricky to set because you have two variables. If you are mixing the fuel yourself, you will have three to contend with.

Oh, and you can't use mineral oils for glow engines because it doesn't go with the methanol.

HTH

[Matt]

Thanks Burt...I didn't know about the nitrate...I'll have to do the round trip to my 'local' model shop for the D1000 next week by the looks of it.

Cheers

Matt

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Matt]

Never heard of them...we certainly wouldn't have one of those up here...unless it involved sheep.;-)

[Matt]

Well thats blown it totaly...I've just phoned round the local chemists and none of them can get ether.

So I called my 'local' model shop and asked if they had any diesel and no they havn't got any and Model Technics have stopped making it...thier trying annother place tomorrow but don't sound too hopeful. So any ideas? Can I use a different solvent for fuel?

Matt

[Mark Lubbock]

You can get ether from motor or farm shops-Easy Start or similar for starting Tractors contains mainly ether + propellant & lubricant-you need to invert the can & release the propellant & then carefully pierce the can to ectract the ether. You maybe able to get it in larger non aerosol cans from the farm shops.

Medicinal castor is fine-just buy a bottle & make your fuel up to approx 3-4 times it's size. Use the bottle as a measure & use equal parts of kerosine (parrafin, heating oli or DERV) & ether. Your engine will run OK on this but may be over oily  & have excess ether, but it is a good starting point for experiment. You only need enough ether for easy starting, anymore is a waste & 20-25% should be OK, similarly for the oil. You will probably end up with around 50-25-25% kerosine, ether, oil as a good compromise.

For maximum performance, particularly in high revving applications such as C/L work 2-3% amyl nitrate/nitrite or isopropyl nitrate should be added-obtainable from Model Technics or the aforementioned dubious 'adult & recreation' shops, known as 'poppers' I believe.

The alternative (which I do) is to go to a model show & visit the Southern Modelcraft fuel stand-their diesel is very good & excellent value at under a tenner for 1/2 gallon-will last ages with a small diesel.

Another alternative (& for anyone else!!)is to parcel up your diesels & send them to me-I love them!!!

[260 Flyer]

Matthew Kemp wrote (see)

So I called my 'local' model shop and asked if they had any diesel and no they havn't got any and Model Technics have stopped making it.

Matt

Matt

You need to find a better (or at least more honest) model shop!

Model Technics Diesel Fuel

[flytilbroke]

Mat, try Scoonie Hobbies or Paisley Model Centre. Pop along to Spey Bay Hall 27th Nov, to the Dallachy Aeromodelers AGM at 7:30 PM, someone there may be able to help

[Matt]

I'll be at the meeting on Thursday, but I think that Scoonie and Paisley are a little far just to buy a litre of fuel...I'll try the tractor starter first.

Thanks for all your input guys.

Matt

[Matt]

Well I did the thing with the ether today...it wasn't as bad as I had feared.

So I now have a jam jar full of ether, two stroke motorbike oil(fully sinth) and parfin mixed in roughly equal parts. The only thing is that the oil doesn't look fully mixed in...I'll give it a go tomorrow (wife/kids permitting).

Matt

[flytilbroke]

Hi Matt, I meant phone 'em  Anyway I hope you overcome your problem soon.

[Mark Lubbock]

Hi Matt, 

Not all oils, particularly synthetics, are soluble in ether/paraffin mix-one of the reasons castor oil is/was always used in model diesel fuels-mineral oils are also normally OK, but I would always use castor.

[Doug Ireland]

Matt,

How did you get the ether out of the can without blowing yourself up? I have an old PAW 19D that hasn't been run for years so i may try and make my own fuel for it too.

[Matt]

Doug, do not do this it's very dangerous.

Do not turn the tin of easy-start upside down and place in a workmate (in a very well ventilated area) with the nozzle depressed and go for a cup of tea .

When you get back from your cup of tea all the propellant should have gone. Then it would be a really dodgy idea to take a small drill (2mm ish) and drill a hole in the bottom of the can. Then decant the ether into a clean jam jar and pop the lid on.

I did this in my back garden on a breazy day with my wife watching (in horror) from a safe distance. I don't know if it would make any difference but I was carefull to not shake up the can as this could make the ether mix with the propellant.

 I got 3/4 of a standard jam jar full from one 330ml can of easy-start. I must say that I havn't tryed my home-brew yet but watch this space and I'll let you know how I get on.

 Take care

Matt

[Doug Ireland]

I'm a bit confused. The cans of Easy Start I've seen in the past were meant to be used upside down so there must be different types out there.

My wife would encourage me to do risky things... don't know why

[Matt]

Could be time to check just how much insurance she has on you Doug.

 Don't know about the upside down easy start tho'...it didn't say anything like that on the can I got. Obviously you only invert it to get rid of the propellant. 

BTW I tryed the engine today and got nowt but a very short spluttering run and a tired arm. Mind you it hasn't got over -3 Deg today and I don't think that any of our engines are that keen on running in such cold.

Any thoughts on this guys?

Oh and the oil had mixed in nicely overnight.

[Doug Ireland]

Sounds like too much ether and not enough paraffin. Its the paraffin that burns, not the ether, thats only a compression (ignition) enhancer. Tell me to shut up if I'm wrong.

[Matt]

thanks Doug...you could be right as I've done a basic thirds mix and others have sugested 50% paraffin...I'll give it a go when I get a chance.