Stevo Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Yes an iPad may be a little large ! You can buy digital angle gauges from Axminster and the like quite cheap, and they are accurate. I have the GemRed one, but I use it for all sorts of stuff like saw setting etc. Be careful that the gauge itself does not depress any control surfaces and ruin the accuracy. When I did mine, I propped up the tail until it was absolutely level (elevator level as well!). I then placed some scrap ply under the horizontal stab, until the stab itself sat on that - as to not move it when I placed the gauge on it. Again, make sure the elevator is in its neutral position when taking measurements. I really found the incidence meter almost indispenable. I have diagnosed all sorts of issues on other aircraft and sorted them in minutes. One of these may suffice in the long run... I'm really intrigued as to what you will find - however flying with 7mm of down for a straight and level flight is a fair indication that something is a bit cock-eyed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Edwards Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I've got a new Acrowot, we put an incidence gauge on it at work and confirmed it has down incidence at the tail by 5mm from trailing edge to leading edge. Mine too required a fair amount of down trim (~5mm). IMO the plane is too light on a 2200mah 3S, I bulked mine up a few hundred grams, added an APC prop and it works well now the wing loading is a little heavier for my kind of flying. Love the paint jobs - I've just tried coving my wing with fair results, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good as those ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Thanks for the kind words, but my Acrowot is decorated with Fablon, sealed with a covering iron. Not a drop of paint in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Edwards Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Yes I understand. Any preference of fablon over solartrim ? When you say you seal with the iron what does that do to the film ? I know certain films act differently. Sorry for the noob questions, first time I've had a go at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Personally I prefer (genuine) Fablon as it's slightly thicker than Solartrim and therefore easier to handle. It can be placed and peeled off as many times as necessary until happy that the positioning is correct. Once happy, smooth down with a cotton hanky, or rag, and finally seal in place with a covering iron on a very low heat. I use a cotton sock over the iron's sole (very important to avoid the iron 'dragging' over the Fablon) and set the temperature dial to number 1. This provides just enough heat to soften the Fablon to enable it to be teased around slow compound curves, and also soften the adhesive enough to make it stick extremely well to the foam. If repairs need effecting after a prang, simply warm the Fablon gently with a hairdryer (not heat gun!) and peel it off. It can be removed cold, but it usually tears the fine surface finish of the foam very slightly. I have tried alternative self adhesive vinyl coverings, but nothing I've found so far works as well as Fablon. Also beware that some traders on eBay advertise they're selling Fablon, but it's usually just a cheap copy that simply isn't as good. I would suggest paying slightly more at a craft shop as then you know it's the genuine article. As always, practise on a scrap piece first to perfect the technique. Finally, on any foamies that are hand launched, cover the whole fuselage bottom and wing tips with clear Fablon because it prevents the ingress of dirt and eliminates grass staining. If it's looking a bit tatty after an intensive winter session, simply peel off and apply new. Edited By Bill_B on 11/06/2015 20:51:43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 My 'decoration' is also with film - solar trim in my case. Great advice regarding the fablon - solartrim is not all that sticky on foam and in the smaller application areas (the ends of the tailplane for instance) it unfolds. I read in RCME recently that its ok to put solarfilm on foam too providing you are careful with the iron setting - I plan to do a trial run on an old wot-4 wing to get the exact setting. BTW - if you haven't tried the solarfilm substitute that hobby king sell for around £6 for 5 metres do - its really good quality. Incidentally here are a couple of posts on using a smartphone app to create a homemade budget incidence meter. http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=54603 http://allrcflight.com/smart-phone-incidence-meter/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Interesting to hear all the talk about bulking up and wind and weight. I have an Acrowot Foam E which I fly on the beach next to the caravan in Anglesey where there is unlimited landing area - not like grass strips which is good for me as basically I am a slope soarer. The advantage is that when the wind is strong - a lot of the time really, you have an option. I find the Acrowot great to fly in light winds but a real handful in any wind, so when the wind blows, I go up Holyhead Mountain or the Orme, and in light winds fly the power models, ideal compromise. Re the incidence problem - presume the c of g is in the right place ie too far back - a glider thing rather than power - or the motor couldn't have not enough down thrust - just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Edwards Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Fellas - thanks very much for the detailed info. The covering I tried was from HK and it was good to use (1st time) - my iron is digital and ~120c the foam started to scale a bit which is why I am interested in the fablon / solar trim way. On the flying the CG is definatly right on the plane, I've tested it in a dive / climb. The thrust is spot on too, does all the things it's supposed to. IMO it's just a little light for the wing thickness / area and has too much tail incidence. I'm flying about 200g heavier than stock and I've only seen it as an improvement. Gusts on approach to land do not cause the plane to bounce back into the air and it's less susceptable to the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 IanR -Any progress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Not yet, Stevo. I've got the extended bar, which I will cut down to length, and the plastic parts and they fit together perfectly, of course. Anyone wanting a cheaper way to put an incidence meter together, please take note. However, it will be a while before I can try them out on the Acrowot but I must say, the flimsy feel of the stabiliser and elevator make me doubt how accurate a reading I will be able to get. I intend to do it two-handed with me holding the bar steady and the wife on the ipad, but even so... I will let you know as soon as I've had a go, though. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hello Stevo - I've sent you a PM. I've taken readings and I get 4 degs down angle ( down at the front) on the stabiliser compared to the wing. Presumably this is wrong and, since the stabiliser appears to sit properly on its housing on the fuselage, its the fuselage that is bent. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hi Ian could you post a picture of how you have fixed the smart phone etc.? I have bought a clamp like this to make a home made incidence meter too. I have been flying the acro-wot meanwhile and been trying to get a better trim with the help of someone more experienced at the field. By reducing the elevator throw and very carefully adjusting the other control surfaces it flies better now - however we have deduced that the wing is warped a bit because as you put on more power it wants to turn to the right. Its plenty lively but hard to develop good manoeuvres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hello Rob I used an ipad not a smartphone - very clumsy but do-able, or maybe not. I'll explain, from Wheelspin Models I bought a 36" long extended bar and a pack of spare plastic bits for the (I believe discontinued) Hangar 9 Angle Pro incidence gauge. This gives you everything except the digital level thingamyjig of the Angle Pro. I put the acrowot on a table top and held the assy in position first on the wing and then the tail. My missus then gently placed and held the ipad on the top of the bar whilst I held it steady. We took readings in both positions, repeated a few times, and got 10 deg wing and 6 deg stabiliser readings. However, since posting above, I have worked out that to "straighten out" the stabiliser to give 0.5 degs decalage (?) suggested by Stevo, from the existing 4 degs decalage, would mean lifting the front of the stabiliser a whopping 7.34 mm. I just cannot believe that the model is this far out. Therefore (a) I don't trust my readings and have placed an order for one of the small square-shaped digital levels (£15) and intend to double sided-tape it to the bar and hopefully get more accurate readings and (b) I am hoping to borrow a club members Acrowot to make measurement comparisons - before I start hacking away at the foam. I've tried putting pictures into my album, before, but I don't seem to be able to post them. Ian Edited By IanR on 24/06/2015 20:17:37 Edited By IanR on 24/06/2015 20:19:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hi Ian I have bought a pretty cheap (£8) 30cm long clamp and plan to glue a balsa rack into which I can slot my ancient iPhone. I will glue some foam grips on the jaws to rest against the leading and trailing edge of the wing/tailplane. I will post here the results once this gadget is complete. This is is the clamp I have: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231450955937?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hello Rob Great minds, and all that. That looks exactly like the clamp that's underneath my chair, in bits, as I write this. I was going to do something similar but, being a lazy beggar, I ended up buying the bits instead. Just a thought, have you already downloaded an inclinometer/level type app onto your ancient iPhone? Ian PS I think I shall start a new thread to ask if anyone can tell us what the angle of incidence ought to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Here's where I got my information from, it helped me enormously!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hi Ian - the app is called iLevel lite and its free. There are lots of others but this reads to 0.1 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I said I would post my incidence meter once I had it made - here it is... Its made from a clamp bought on ebay for under a fiver and a couple of pieces of balsa and makes use of my iPhone 5 with the iLevel app. I made the white wedges that fit on the wing trailing and leading edge from epo foam from a crashed model (I save things like that in case they become useful). Here it is levelling the wing on my Fokker DVII build. Edited By robk on 26/07/2015 20:31:36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hello Rob Have you had a chance to use your new incidence meter on the Acrowot, yet? Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hi Ian Not yet. However, there is a reason for this. I had a slight 'piloting error' with the acro wot (I crashed it!) - but not too badly... So I put it back together in about an hour and made so me slight adjustments that had been bugging me such as trimming the foam where the wing joins the fuselage between the rear fixing screw - this made the wing fit into the fus without a discernible gap. This is the only time I have a had a crashed plane fly better after the rebuild than before- it flies great now - responsive and steady throughout. I have even gradually increased control surface throws so I can throw it about a bit more - still needs loads of down elevator to hold inverted so it will take some greater movement yet I'm sure. The new wing seating must have improved the incidence setting I guess. I will take a reading and post what it is now it flies right. I have used the home made meter on the fokker build to set up all the flying surfaces and it seems to work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yes, Rob, I've seen your meter on the Fokker's wing on the other thread. Very neat. I look forward to finding out what your incidences are on your Acrowot - in the meantime I'll be looking at the way my wing seats against the fuselage. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Hi Ian Sorry its taken so long but here are a coupe of photos of my makeshift incidence meter on the acro-wot. Its hard to get an accurate reading as the trailing edge of the wing is a bit weak and flexes - the tail has a slight aerofoil section too. I would say the incidence is between neutral and 1 degree positive (leading edge higher than trailing edge on wing). I flew it yesterday and it is rock steady. This may also help. For me I found that reducing the throws on the elevator helped a lot in getting used to flying the acro-wot. I put in dual rates - landing and taking off on reduced throws on elevator and aileron. Now I have been flying it a bit I find I don't really need the reduced throws and will probably take them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 That sounds about right. Pack up some scrap balsa under the tail and that will lock the elevator in place as I did on mine. There you go Ian - there's your answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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