The Seagull E-Pioneer thread

[Bob Bertram]

Hi Folks,

Have just started an E-Pioneer and will be using the Emax 2820/07 with the Robotbirds Pro 60 ESC and 4S Lipos. Have been following Martin's series in RCME avidly and using them to build as my instructions are for the Innovator apart from the first and last page!! This gives the CoG as 5.5-6.5 cm but I see from the RCME articles that it should be 85 mm. I'm a newbie to all this by the way.

Cheers

Bob

[Redex]

Hi Bob,

This is a great thread with lots of info - I found the thread very helpful when I was starting out with my E-Pio. Also if you have access there is a previous article on the E-Pio in RCM&E March 2008 also very informative.

My E-Pioneer is still going strong and has taken me from complete beginner to 'A' test pass and now beyond. The CofG is stated as 8.5cm from the leading edge in the assembly manual, which has worked OK for me.

[Andy48]

Hi Bob

One of the E-Pioneer models I bought had a similar manual with most of it for the Innovator. The first one I built suggested the CofG should be 8.5cm from the leading edge with the fuel tank empty! You can download the full E-Pioneer manual here:

**LINK**

8.5cm from the leading edge is fine for the CofG. Do get someone experienced to fly it for you first, but if you have built it carefully it should require little or no adjustment.

It will take any 4S battery weighing up to 400g.

[Bob H]

Hi Guys, Many thanks for all the info. Just waiting for my 4S Lipos to arrive. Then the big day.!! Cheers, Bob.

[Bob H]

Martin, I see 4 Max recommend a 3 Cell Lipo !!!! ? but we know it does not work too good with the E Max 2820 Motor. Bob

[Bob Bertram]

Hi Folks,

Many thanks Redex and Martin for the info, have read all of this thread twice so far. Lots of info there. I'm not that far off finished but still have to sort out/order the batteries. This is getting confusing with two Bobs (in old money) askiing questions!!

Cheers

Bob

[Andy48]

I was out flying mine this afternoon, in light winds. After an 8 minute flight with a year old 4S 3,300mah battery doing a number of loops and vertical climbs, but generally pottering about on half throttle, I still had 67% charge left in the battery.

Incidentally a new club member apparently brought one down to the club last week. It was test flown by an experienced club member and yes it flew with almost no trimming required.

Another point to make about the battery size, remember lipos as they age will increase internal resistance, and therefore maximum power will decrease. You can always close the throttle a bit, you cannot get more power out than the battery will deliver.

Bob B, any 4S battery that weighs under 400g will do fine, a higher capacity battery will obviously give longer flights, and also should have a longer lifespan. Remember too, these batteries will be useful for your next model too, and you might really need an increased capacity there.

Edited By Martin Phillips on 09/06/2013 18:07:08

[Bob Bertram]

Hi Martin,

Many thanks for that, I found out today what the difference in watt output was between a 2S and a 3S battery with an electric glider I have, quite incredible! So will definitely be going the 4S route for the E-Pioneer.

Cheers

Bob

[Stephen Grigg]

Flew mine with 4s and it was perfect.Went to take off one day and the motor flew down the strip with the bulkhesd on the motor.Only happened once in 5 models,Really funny and easily repaired.

[Jon]

Hi Guys... When I started this thread I was not sure if anybody would reply to my posting... WOW there has been almost 36000 viewing's to date.... ooooower!

I have read every post since day one. This plane has proved its worth and I'm sure it will continue to help many more guy's get into the air... It set me up real good and I still have the bug! hi hi.

I would just like to thank the Forum and all who have taken the time to post for without them and the forum I for one would still be taking off more times than I was landing !!

If your new to the hobby you cant go wrong with this starter plane and with this forum behind you.

Best regards Jon ... Hayling Is, Hampshire, UK

[Stephen Grigg]

Hi Jon lovely to hear from you.As you havent posted for a while I wondered what you were upto.Not far from me in Hayling Islad ,used to spend lots of time there as children.This thread of yours helped me with my Pioneer and has helped loads of others on to the right road with the Pioneer.Well done Jon a legend in your own time.

[Bob Bertram]

Finally I have got mine ready for it's maiden, (hopefully sometime this week by one of my instructors). Weighs in at 4.5lbs and is giving 560 watts with one of those new Dynamic 3200Mah 4s Lipo batteries, Emax 2820/07 motor and a BRC/Robotbirds Pro 60 ESC. Prop is 12" but can't remember the pitch.

Bob

Edited By Bob Bertram on 21/07/2013 21:53:07

[Redex]

Hi Bob, and good luck with the maiden flight - and that the weather is good for the flight. My E-Pio weighs in a bit heavier than yours and I use a 12*6 APC-E, will get around to trying a 13*6.5 one day. My E-Pio although a little tatty now, still gives lots of fun with about 7-8mins of varied flying on a 4S 3900 Overlander.

[Bob Bertram]

Hi Redex,

Thanks for that. Tomorrow is looking good weatherwise so hopefully I can find someone to do the maiden.

[Bob Bertram]

All went well with the maiden. Flew nicely with only a little amount of trim needed. Saw the test pilot even did a loop! Managed to have a go too (more sedately).

[Phil Winks]

Just got my E-Pioneer to get me back on track for my A test after a 4 year break and there seems to be some conflicting advice regarding the bty pack. most if not all online retailers advertise the recomended bty as a 3s, the assy manual specifies a 4s and Andy Ellison in in his review from, lord only knows when, used a 4s but claims that makes things a bit too lively at 1st and recomends a 3s.

My plan at the min is

this motor 450W at 3s and 700W at 4s so and upgrade is possible

this esc with a 4A Bec should handle the 5 servo's

and these servo's all metal gear so should handle the nose wheel ok

I'll keep you all posted once the hardware arrives, By the way I've seen some high prices quoted for getting this bird in the air assuming I have the Tx and Rx already and not including the Bty's I reckon

£72 for the model £67 for the motor esc, servos and some ancillaries. and another £12 for all the servo extensions so £151 so far a long way below some prices I've seen though some of those especially those approaching £400 must surely have included a Tx and Rx.

Finally a word about the supplier of the model. it arrived early this week in an undamaged box well packed the innner packageing was all in pristine condition too but one wing tip had a small knife cut in the covering. an easy repair but the rub is despite 2 emails to the suppliers in north norfolk no response yet

I'm giving them till mon before phoning hence not naming them yet

the cut in the wing tip

Phil

[Stephen Grigg]

Thats very annoying Phil i hope they resolve the problem.. the model took me a long way

[Phil Winks]

Me too stephen the annoying thing is the lack of response and depending on their response to a phone call monday I may well be naming and shaming. The fix is simple a little white or even contrasting solatrim on each wingtip will do just fine. its just a case of why should I pay out to fix a brand new model straight out of the box?

Still on to the assy I had a play with the airframe tis morning did you find the fuselage connector tube a sloppy fit? I had to wrap a layer of pvc insulation tape round mine to prevent it ratting inside the fuse. The wing tube is a near perfect fit and will do its job but that fuse joining tube was not doing anything least of all adding any strength.

I'm not surprised this took you a long way with your flying as my 1st model was the arising star and that got me close to my A in very little time at all only passed it on due to joining an all electric club when I moved to somerset from south yorkshire 5 yrs ago then followed a 4 yr enforced abscence from the hobby so there's a lot of reminiscing going on right now lol they look so similar just no noisy smelly lump up front. the modular construction would've been a godsend back then too with the small car I had

 

Phil

Edited By Phil Winks on 04/08/2013 16:30:39

[Redex]

Have to say that my E-Pio fuse tube and wing tube although not a very tight fit are not to sloppy, but I guess as these are built to a budget variances will occur, although of course it should be sold fit for purpose. I notice also that on the JP web site prices of some spares like wings and fuse have increased considerably. Mine is still going strong way after my 'A' and I now tend to use full rates for fun and low rates for more relaxed flying.

[John Miller 4]

Hi Phil

I had the same problem, I suspect from the same supplier. I think the damage is caused by the bag of bits and bobs floating about loose in the box. They eventually sent a replacement wing and collected the damaged wing. They will want a photograph of the damage before they send a replacement. Part of the problem is that the covering becomes brittle in the cold, which is when I suspect the damage occured. I did need to make a couple of phone calls plus two e-mails to get the matter resolved.

[Tony Lovett 1]

Hi - I am new to this forum and just received my E Pioneer kit - my first build.

It has seems to have some extra parts and parts differ from the instructions.

I have as extra - 2 small jump rings (the type that are used to link jewellery chains to clasps) / 1 dished washer with 3mm hole (could be used with tail fin bolt but then there is only one / a plastic tube with a 2mm wire push rod in it.

The manual seems to have an error relating to the aileron servos saying to "Install the metal connector onto servo arm as same as picture below". This, I think, applies only to the nose wheel. Later the manual shows the control surfaces linked using snap keepers.

Does anyone know if there is a posting showing where people have located the ESC / RX etc?

I have velcro straps for the battery - is it worth trying to make/secure a battery cover?

[Tony Lovett 1]

Further to my last email - I believe the 2mm push rod is for the nose wheel.

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Tony Lovett 1 on 05/08/2013 13:00:02:

Hi - I am new to this forum and just received my E Pioneer kit - my first build.

It has seems to have some extra parts and parts differ from the instructions.

I have as extra - 2 small jump rings (the type that are used to link jewellery chains to clasps) / 1 dished washer with 3mm hole (could be used with tail fin bolt but then there is only one / a plastic tube with a 2mm wire push rod in it.

The manual seems to have an error relating to the aileron servos saying to "Install the metal connector onto servo arm as same as picture below". This, I think, applies only to the nose wheel. Later the manual shows the control surfaces linked using snap keepers.

Does anyone know if there is a posting showing where people have located the ESC / RX etc?

I have velcro straps for the battery - is it worth trying to make/secure a battery cover?

 

Hi Tony looks like we'll be putting this together much at the same time my hardware is on its way this week so won't be far behind you.

Bty Hatch I think its a good idea to help prevent the bty being dumped on the runway when the inevitable hard arrival happens an abraded bty pack could easily destroy the plane in spectacular style

The connections of the links between all control surfaces and servos at the servo should in my opinion be as in the picture you refer to Tony as these make adjustment so much easier though I will be swapping th nuts out for "Nyloc" nuts as they will not vibrate of

The plastic tube with 2mm push rod has escaped my attention so far if I even have one lol so at pres no answer on that though I thought the nose wheel rod was much finer

The dished washer is almost certainly for the tailfin. there is only one bolt for the fin as the other end has a dowel that goes through the stabilizer into the fuse to prevent both twisting

The pics in the manual are pre a hardware upgrade, witness the control horns now have 3 fixing points not 2

finally check your manual against mine to confirm we have the same. Mine is HERE

 

Phil

Edited By Phil Winks on 05/08/2013 17:43:46

[Tony Lovett 1]

Hi Phil - There is only one 'metal connector' that goes to the servo arm in my kit so if you want to use that type of link to all the control horns you'll have to buy them (the control rods are approx 2mm).

The plastic tube/pushrod is for the nose wheel and is not 2mm - my mistake.

The tail fin and the stabiliser fit using 3mm bolts so one of them doesn't have a washer if the dished one is intended for them.

I have sent a photo to JP and await their reply. TBH none of these things is an issue.

[Phil Winks]

Posted by John Miller 4 on 05/08/2013 11:41:51:

Hi Phil

I had the same problem, I suspect from the same supplier. I think the damage is caused by the bag of bits and bobs floating about loose in the box. They eventually sent a replacement wing and collected the damaged wing. They will want a photograph of the damage before they send a replacement. Part of the problem is that the covering becomes brittle in the cold, which is when I suspect the damage occured. I did need to make a couple of phone calls plus two e-mails to get the matter resolved.

Hi John I'm not convinced it was the bag of parts as the bag containing the wing had no damage and the parts bag was fixed to the bottom of the box with a piece of card covering it and the fuse parts plus the damaged area was on the face laid on the other wing with nothing between. No joy with a phone call today think I may have got the opening times wrong trying again tomorrow though to be fair I don't want to go down the route of a replacement just a little solatrim to repair will satisfiy me

Phil