Phoenix - trim for beginner planes

[John C]

I am about to join a local club which has been very helpful. I have ordered a Seagul e-Pioneer and have started to fly circuits and figure eights on a Phoenix sim. Great fun and needs lots of concentration but always land very heavily.

To get the planes like the High-wing Trainer to fly level at half throttle (as recommended in 'Up and away BMFA guide to flying' I find I have to set nearly full up elevator trim. Is this normal or have I done something wrong? I am bad at following instructions precisely and it took me three goes before I think I set Phoenix up correctly with my DX6i.

Should I post this question in the simulator section?

[Mr.B.]

Hi John, and welcome. Half throttle on the high wing trainer feels like too little power to me. It seams to be more comfortable at 2/3 to 3/4 power, and will require less up trim too.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I wouldn't worry too much about the landings - certainly on default settings. I seem to be able to manage to get a wide range of models on the ground reasonably tidily in real life (with the odd exception!) but have been playing with Phoenix recently and have found a "greaser" to be pretty difficult to achieve with most of the models I've tried.

Edited By Martin Harris on 28/07/2013 19:13:21

[John C]

Hi Mr B, thank you and it is great to be on this very helpful forum. I have been browsing on it for a couple of weeks but I am sure now I will have lots of questions of my own.

I have tried what you suggested and the trim is down to about 1/4 of the full range and at that speed the model is flying very differently which I am sure is good for me to practice on. Everything happens so much faster - I am glad I had today practicing on the slower speed first!

[John C]

Hi Martin - thank you for your reassurances. I have not had any flying lessons yet but have start expermenting with pull back the stick more and more as the plane gets closer to the ground and my landings have started to get softer with the slower speed and more gentle angle. Is this the right approach?

[David Molineux]

Hi John and welcome .

There was a really interesting thread here on landing. Some really useful stuff from some very experienced guys (and me!).

Dave

[John C]

Hi David

Thank you. That is an excellent thread and I will read it over and over again and think about all the points which make a lot of sense. The low passes practice sound like the job.

[Andy48]

Hi John

I needed a lot of up elevator on the high wing trainer on the Phoenix to get it to fly level at half throttle, I don't think its your setup at fault. Even on full throttle it still needed some up elevator trim. If you go into the model setup and change the thrust to weight ratio from 0.8 to 1.2 you will find it will fly on about 2/3 throttle with no trim. Also it will then better match the flying characteristics of the E-Pioneer with a 4 cell (4S) battery. You will also get an appreciation of the difference between flying the E-Pioneer on a 3S battery and a 4S battery.

Incidentally, the actual E-Pioneer with a 4 cell battery should not need any elevator trim at half throttle when running on a 4S battery.

 

Edited By Martin Phillips on 29/07/2013 10:26:05

[John C]

Hi Martin

Thank you for your detailed post. I will try those settings and see how it behaves.

I am currently flying the Mentor which flies slower and is easier for me to control on landings. I am still getting my left and right turns confused so a bit slower is good for me at the moment. I want to practice on planes that won't be too far off the e-Pinoeer.

[John C]

Hi Martin

Thinking about this a bit more. My problem is that the High-wing Trainer flies level with no trim at 49.4 mph which is too fast for novice me to practice landings. I don't think that changing the thrust to weight ratio will change this. The Mentor flies level at 37.4 mph which is much more manageable and with half up trim this drops to a sedate 28 mph. I am gradually reducing this as I improve.

I love flying the Super Cub which flies level at 20 mph or 13.4 mph with full up trim. It's great fun to fly it really slow close to the ground doing tight turns. Brilliant to be able to try these things without risking a model!

[Andy48]

John

Speaking from bitter experience I would not worry too much at this stage about landings. The real advantage of flying using a sim is to get the feel of the model in the air, and to begin to get the brain to think for itself when you are flying, just like you do with a car when changing gear. It takes time for the brain to learn this automatic control.

Pheonix has one major difference from flying a real model, and that is seeing your model from a distance as it approaches the landing zone. On the sim your approach has to be a lot closer because the model shimmers on the display (I'm using a high quality 22" display with a fast computer). You have much more time in reality, and can slow the plane down gently allowing it to drop slowly, and at the same time adding a little up elevator to compensate as it slows.

If you are joining a club, then they will no doubt be able to use a buddy lead system, and this will mean for the first few flights you do not have to worry about take-offs or landings. Once your experience develops (and this brain/hand co-ordination) you will be able to make your own take-offs and landings with someone there to quickly take over should things go wrong.

[John C]

Martin

What you say makes sense to me and fits in with what I am experiencing. It is very good to hear that in reality I will have longer approaches. I am using a 15" laptop and very quickly the model is too small to be able to see it well enough to make reasonably level turns so I am now making my approach turns earlier so I can keep the plane steady.

I am going to join a club I have visited and will be using a buddy lead which is very reassuring.

[Andy48]

Happy building and flying.

[IanR]

John, don't forget that Phoenix has a specific Landing Training feature. I used this feature a lot, initially. It also taught me how to fly towards myself.

[John C]

Thanks Martin - the parcels have started to arrive and the model kit is supposed to come tomorrow - all very exciting.

Ian - I had forgotten about the training features - I will have a look when I have checked the parcel from Giantshark.

[John C]

Ian

Have been practicing for the last hour on the landing trainer and it has made me realise that my approaches were far too shallow. Now I can come in steep and fast on a deadstick and do a nice flair to bleed off the speed at the end. Thank you for that tip! Can't hit the target though - just glad to land on the mown strip. Ah yes, and flying towards myself has become nearly instinctive with only the occasional wobble.