Martin Harris - Moderator

Lots of guessing going on here but if HK are effectively offering dealerships to clubs then any liability for faulty goods will be on the clubs rather than HK - I don't think many clubs would want the hassle of chasing HK in the event of a warranty claim without UK consumer protection unless they add a hefty mark up to their members!

Interesting that they claim the castor is to “fine-tune combustion characteristics”…

I don’t think it’s for us to judge individual clubs’ policies. Joining fees are maybe a bit of an historic feature these days but where a club feels they are appropriate, why should a prospective member not see them as part of the overall package of fees, suitability, location, access etc. etc. to be considered when selecting a club? Membership policies can evolve of course and should a club decide that joining fees are off-putting then they can - and should - revise the policy. We do have a £50 joining fee and I’m yet to hear a prospective member comment adversely on it. We have introduced a policy of asking anyone interested in joining to pop in to the field to meet us - not just as a form of informal vetting but to ensure that we can manage their expectations to avoid the situation of taking their money and them finding that facilities/training or even the club atmosphere aren’t as expected. The original question was “why do some clubs have joining fees” so I suppose the short answer is that it’s because it suits them!

Probably covering the transformer/rectifier circuitry? From the website: Address Any Lamp BV Budgetlight.co.uk Victory House 400 Pavilion Drive Northampton Business Park NN4 7PA Northampton Northamptonshire Warehouse address Anylamp BV Hooge Zijde 30a 5626 DC Eindhoven Netherlands

When you join a member's club, in most cases you instantly become an "equal shareholder" - although many clubs have a charity distribution clause on dissolution so the financial aspect may be minimal. I believe that a joining fee reflects a part of that entitlement to use equipment and facilities provided by the existing members and their predecessors. Many new members will take advantage of freely given instruction and help. In the case of a commercial enterprise, start-up and maintenance costs will be factored into membership fees and expected to provide a healthy profit whereas a member's club will normally aim to cover costs and maintain a sufficient float for unexpected expenses at minimum subscription fees. The joining fee is one factor in offsetting costs for committed members and either weed out the casual "tick one off the bucket list" one season wonders or give the club [i.e. the existing members] a little return on its investment. There should be a balance between it being seen as both a financial commitment to the club/incentive to renew and its cost - some clubs own their fields, others have long term agreements and considerable investment in infrastructure and equipment and some may just have an arrangement with a friendly landlord at token cost with the use of the chairman's mower...so the level they are set at should reflect this. If it's the case that a club with a joining fee has a waiting list then it can hardly be seen as an off-putting factor!

OK - I'll re-phrase my request which may have been phrased too subtly...if this thread becomes political or disrespectful to other nations it will be closed.

Perhaps we should respect the wishes of the OP and avoid any further discussion over the use and history of the symbol...

Poster marked as spammer

I don’t know if it’s relevant but they are closed on Wednesdays so perhaps calling today might produce a better result?

Why not get them from the same source that the originals came from…a paint pot! Sadly, Solartrim is a thing of the past but alternatively you could cut them from self adhesive vinyl. Another solution would be to print some onto water slide decal paper using an inkjet printer.

One model I assembled - Durafly Me163 IIRC - came with 2 part decals...presumably so that they weren't actually providing swastikas.

I see the main justification for joining fees being to reflect massive investments in time and money made over the years by members both past and present. The joining fee is a token gesture to showing commitment to the club and not just using it to “pay as you go”. The old chestnut of certification will always cause division but the requirement for a B for flying larger model has been accepted at my club for decades - long before I joined. I saw it as a justifiable target to achieve before building a larger model. I fully accept that possession of a B (particularly one achieved in past years before efforts to standardise requirements may not have been applied) is no guarantee of competence but in a club which has adequate examiner availability I see little reason why someone wanting to operate a large model with its physical and legal responsibilities should not be asked to demonstrate a relatively simple level of competence. While bunting a 1/4 scale Cub may not be high on priorities, the aerobatic elements of the test show that the pilot is comfortable in recovery from unusual attitudes so DO have relevance.

Looking at your picture, my first instinct would be to blame a seized crank pin rather than the piston grabbing.

I suppose I’m just lucky to be so thick skinned.

That might just be acceptable on a laptop but would be disastrous on a smartphone. I really struggle to see - other than as a matter of principle to some - how these occasional adverts, which can be skimmed past in an instant, are causing such angst.

I'm pretty sure that we'll get used to the ads and hardly be consciously aware of them soon. I have to admit that I hadn't noticed them until the posts about them appeared!

As a moderator, I've refrained from commenting so far an case anyone thought I had some bias [I'm unpaid and have no connection with the publishers or editorial staff] but my personal opinion for what it's worth is that these ads don't detract from the flow of threads and take virtually no effort to flick past. Yes, there may be some subliminal input but no more so than from any other exposure to advertising. It seems a minor thing to get upset about to me but I appreciate that others may have different perceptions.

Looking back on this thread prompts a few snippets that might be useful to those unfamiliar with the performance of gliders. 15000 feet is quite possible if flying in standing wave - in fact in order to gain a diamond height endorsement you need to GAIN more than this - 5000m or a bit over 16000 feet above launch height or lowest prior point in the flight. A climb in cloud can get you to this height but airspace considerations and cloud flying ability often limit this option. Early height records were set in thunderstorm clouds but resulted in numerous fatalities. Those gently wafting gliders above you are capable of speeds up to around 150 knots (@175mph) or more although won’t be travelling at much more than 100 knots between thermals in strong conditions. Once in a thermal they will be flying between 40 to 60 knots depending on whether they are carrying water or not. * Why carry water? On a strong lift day, you can trade climb performance for speed between thermals. The distance flown is related only to the relationship of lift against drag so a heavy glider travels essentially the same distance through still air as a light one but gets there quicker. Cross country speeds can be very impressive when thermals line up in a wind, forming well defined “streets” where gliders can adopt a technique known as dolphining where the glider is flown fast in sinking air and pulled up hard when strong lift is encountered - pushing over below the normal stalling speed as short periods of negative G allow the glider to remain in the rising air longer…then flying slowly through any remaining lift until going back into static or sinking air and increasing speed to suit. (Various electronic or mechanical computing methods can be used to give the best speed to fly, taking into account conditions and requirements). All in all, a glider cockpit can be a busy environment and those flights can last many hours. *Carrying water also gives the pilot an excuse to do a low level “competition finish” streaming water like a smoke trail and pulling up from a few feet converting energy from speed into sufficient height (several hundred feet) to complete a normal circuit and landing!

That takes me back. The legendary John Jeffries who pioneered lead and follow cross country soaring courses used this technique in addition to air brakes to descend quickly when picking up “lame ducklings” struggling to centre in thermals.

Remember Kim, there are two different registrations. The first is a flyer ID which BMFA A test holders were exempted from. It is free and if not a member of one of the qualifying organisations, you could take an online test with the CAA and be issued with a Flyer ID which allowed you to fly models - your own, or any belonging to others. However, in order to fly your own models - or have them flown by others, you need to register as an operator. This does not require any qualification other than being old enough but you do have to pay an annual fee - the £9 referred to earlier in the thread. For this fee, you are issued with a long line of characters that you have to display on your models. This is unaffected by the decision to issue Flyer IDs to those exempted from the test process. All that will happen is that you will get a Flyer ID which you could quote in any "correspondence" with the CAA, Police, insurance company etc. but will largely be of academic interest to the majority of BMFA members. The simplification referred to is for the benefit of the authorities, who won't need to check with the BMFA for your details and validity of your exemption in the event of an incident or accident. So don't worry - it will just be added to your online documentation and with any luck, you'll never need it and it won't have any effect on your operation or your pocket.

Are you confusing the Flyer ID with the Operator ID Kim? As I read it, The number displayed on your models won't change but as BMFA qualifying members we will be issued with similar numbers to those who have completed the CAA test and registration process.

I’m sorry Andy but the impression you’re giving is that it’s seen as a fait accompli and the BMFA is more interested in promoting its own event than challenging the outrageous statement from the police that they are not prepared to consider exemptions on merit. Note that I said “impression” and as a long time supporter of the BMFA I can only hope that efforts are going on in the background. I would understand if these need to be done in private but perhaps it would be possible to indicate that work is in progress?

They certainly used Rolls Royce engines during WW2!

Isn’t this the reason for flyer and operator IDs? That “innocently ignorant” drone flyer has officially demonstrated his knowledge of his responsibilities and will be likely to feel the full weight of the law or is also operating illegally as an unregistered flyer and therefore in even deeper water. Perhaps this is what Andy’s confused icon represents? I fully understand your concern that our representative organisation appears to be accepting a statement from the police that while the legislation allows for applications for exemptions, they are refusing to consider them on their merits. Could the next step be private aviation bans appearing for lesser events? Are 40000 football fans on a Saturday afternoon not equally vulnerable to an airborne terrorist threat? Unchallenged, I suspect there could be a tangible threat to our interests, whether they are a hobby or a sport.

Post deleted as it contained an image which was totally unacceptable on this forum.