Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Interesting point and I don't claim to know whether you're correct having always accepted the Barnes Wallis version but it does seem to be supported as an alternative to geodesic by Collins... geodetic [ˌdʒiːəʊˈdɛtɪk] adj 1. (Mathematics) of or relating to geodesy 2. (Mathematics) another word for geodesic geodetically adv Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003 In fact, isn't it the case that the Wellington's structure isn't truly geodesic and the term geodetic was used by Wallis to distinguish this point? A very quick bit of research suggests to me that geodesics refers to measurement of the shortest distance between 2 points on the essentially spherical surface of the earth... Edited By Martin Harris on 01/10/2013 14:47:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Posted by Andrew767 on 01/10/2013 13:57:17: Posted by Martin Harris on 01/10/2013 11:57:17: Posted by Chris P. Bacon on 30/09/2013 23:42:40: Or, mountain biking, a sport apparently invented by the Americans in the 1970's! My dad was riding cross country on rough trails and footpaths through woods, heathland and over hills in the South of England before WW2. In the 1950's I joined him and great fun it was too. Admittedly the bikes weren't purpose built, just ride to work drop handlebar hacks. When we were youngsters in the sixties we took great delight in scouring the hedgerows and local dumps for bicycle bits and building what we called "trackers" for rough riding around the nearby lanes and tracks - the main feature being "cowhorn" handlebars. Something that I fear the "Playstation Generation" will never appreciate. Edited By Martin Harris on 01/10/2013 11:58:25 Ha ha! Martin, i remember doing the same thing....happy days indeed. However Mountain bikes as we know them today were developed by Gary Fisher (The fish man) in California in the early 1970s. Andrew As do I!!!! I had at one stage ten bikes, with two "trackers", though I only knew them as "track bikes", track as in path not race track. Knobbly Avon "Speedway Gripster" tyres my dodgy memory says to me! I used Cycle Speedway handlebars. My main one had a black/white wet mix marbled frame paintjob and the spokes were all painted different colours. Took ages!!! Never had multi gears though. A friend always used his mum's turnback handlebar rod braked shopping "clunker", which managed to loosen the saddle and swing up to give him a high voice on near every bump!! Another used alloy rims, so was always standing on them to get the kinks out!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Blanchard crossed the channel in a balloon in 1785, I wasn't there, but it sems to be well documented. Bleriot was the first across in a heavier air machine, but I do believe that a balloon is defined as flying when in the air. (Oxford English Dictionary). In May 1919 a NC4 aircraft flew across the Atlantic (in stages) roughly a month before Alcock & Brown did it non-stop, so Lindbergh certainly was not the first. in fact he was quite late. Pedantic maybe, but the subject of the piece was about broadcasters getting their facts right. (they just leave out the bits they don't like, to suit themselves, to make their 'job' easier.) Yes I am a grumpy old man .................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Posted by Martin Harris on 01/10/2013 14:35:23: A very quick bit of research suggests to me that geodesics refers to measurement of the shortest distance between 2 points on the essentially spherical surface of the earth... Edited By Martin Harris on 01/10/2013 14:47:39 Yes. A geodesic structure is one in which a curved surface (like the skin of an aeroplane in our case) is achived by means of struts joining points on that surface via the shortest distance and forming loaclised triangles or other stable polygonal shapes - can be hexagons for example but they are really six neighbouring triangles in a sense!). Such a structure is very efficient in terms of weight to strength provided the struts in question are stiff. If I remember correctly the Wellington wasn't quite a 100% perfect geodesic structure, but it was certianly influanced by the concept and was a very close approximation. It would be nit-picking in my view to claim that it wasn't a geodesic structure in practical terms. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/10/2013 19:06:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 What I'm struggling to appreciate is why it's wrong to describe the Wellington of having a geodetic structure when it's an accepted term (at least as far as the English language is concerned) and the designer, an engineer with a track record that few could hope to emulate, used the word to describe the very structure referred to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 There's no doubt that Barnes-Wallis developed his geodetic structure ideas from his understanding of geodesics, but there must be compromises in practical applications because of the need to have things like cockpits and bomb-doors and shapes which are not truly spherical. As I understand the English language, the word "geodetic" can be interpreted as "the practical application of geodesics", which is appropriate and as long as the localised reinforcement in the modified areas such as those described is well engineered and supports the designed load-paths, the overall result is effectively achieved, as it clearly was in the Wellington. I'm sure that the word which will always be associated with the Wellington is "geodetic" and it's close enough. It certainly doesn't trouble me. Didn't one of our mates on an earlier thread say that a stressed-skin structure is in effect geodetic with the holes filled in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avtur Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/10/2013 14:23:57: ... PPS When will the media get things right? When they stop judging themselves by the sole criteria of how many copies they sell or how many people watch ... Given that most media outlets are businesses then I would expect them to measure their success by the number of copies they sell or people who watch. If they achieve success in these measures by producing drivel then I’m afraid that points to the tastes and appetites of the consumers, the media business is simply meeting a demand. So with that said I tend to look on media output as being reflective of the interests and values of their customers, which I sometimes find quite shocking. It would appear to suggest that there are lot of people willing to accept sensationalism, inaccuracy and even outright lies … but as has been said why should these failings get in the way of a good story which gains readership? Once the media have attracted their audience look at the advertising which is all to often to be found waiting for them; Payday loan companies, Betting shops and No Win No Fee solicitors … it’s not a pretty picture… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Peacock Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Right…! Now in full 'grumpy old man mode' about the media - nothing new. My local paper really took the prize for errors some years ago. As a lad of 14, I was scorer for my local cricket club, but the paper turned me into the hero who saved the day when I was called on to play after a team member didn't turn up. The paper reported later that I not only took 3 wickets, but also scored the winning runs, batting at number 11. On the day of the match, I was 300 miles away in Torquay on holiday!!! The editor (who wrote the report) said later, "Well, you have to write something - and I couldn't get to the match." QED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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