Peter Miller Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 One of our club members bought Kyosho CAP 232. On about the second flight he was turning to the left and it just tightened up and went in regardless of what he did.He rebuilt the fuselage and flew it again today. after some time it did exactly the same thing, tightened up in a left turn and refused to respond. I can understand why oposite aileron would make the left wing tip stall but I don't know why it didn't do the same thing to the right unless it was torque.Anyone else had the same propblem with this modelAnother very strange thing. While examining the model to see if we could spot anything wrong I noticed taht the wing section which is semi-symmetrical (or bi-convex for the purist) has MORE CURVE ON THE UNDERSIDE, In other words it looks as though it was built the wrong way up.I am sure that this would not cause any problems considering the I use a flat bottomed section on my designs and you can tell any difference whne theya re inverted but it does make one wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I've seen two of these models flick-stall into the deck about 7-8 years ago when at the time they had a certain reputation for biting like that, can't comment on the cross section. haven't seen one for a few years now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 DavidI have just sent Graham an article, in my covering letter I have inserted a photo that shows the inverted section clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Peters pic ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP25 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I hate to ask, but which side is the top? I would think that the servo is on the top of the wing where the most curve is seen. Looks okay to me.What does it look like from the other side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 The servo is definately on the biottom of the wing. I will ask the owner to check if the other wing is the same, I seem to remember that it was. The centre section does not show a step and it would have done if it had been two left wings.The Wing seat certainly was a good fit from new. The owner is a builder and would never have accepted a poor fit or the need to trim it.The model fuselage was trashed on the first flight and has beenr ebuilt with exactly the same result. I don't think that the wing section caused the problem, it is too close to symmetrical to have very much effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP25 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 The Cap is a low wing job where the servo(s) would either be buried in the mid wing section or a single servo in the middle driving both ailerons.From the photo, it looks like the sevo is in the centre of the wing. The side shown in the photo is then the right way up.Need to see the other side to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Dear JohnThe model has a separate servo driving each aileron on the underside of the wing. Please give me a little credit for knowing which way up the wing is. AS shown the top of the wing is uppermost in the photo. Trust me, that wing section is upside down. I draw enough of them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP25 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Ah, that explains it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Just stumbled upon this......I have experienced the very same problem with my Kyosho Cap and although I have managed to save it from going in, found it very twitchy, especialy in a turn when all it seemed to want to do is stall. I tried to no avail by altering the CofG forward/aft with lower and higher rates, throws etc but ended up moth balling the kit as a duff job so this article intrigues me. I will root it out of moth balls and inspect the wing section, for me it seem to answers a lot!!Gary Skinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 I will be interested to hear what you find.I think that quite a lot of the problem is caused by the sharp taper on the wing. Some washout would help but it is not possible to incorporate that without a major rebuild of the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harris Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Probably not related.I've noticed that the RealFlight G3.5 (and G3) CAP 232 will do a similar thing when flown slow. As a result I've not drawn to the 232 prefering the stability of the Extra. Of course <spacebar> is the simple fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 The problem with the CAP 232 was when it was flying fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Well Peter, with the aid of my lovely assistant the future ex Mrs Skinner all is revealed!! The top of the wing is the top of the photograph showing the aileron servo control horn on the bottom to save any confusion. Both ailerons are driven by separate servos. I have also found that the problem of stalling in turns is exasperated at speed. There are two solution's in my opinion, First option is to fly inverted all the time until the last minuet on landing, the second involves a band saw and bin liner!!!Happy Landings!Gazza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 So it was a general fault. One could chop the wing in half and build it up with reversed dihedral and the servos on top or...one could build a decent model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Strange you should say that Peter I am currently restoring a Culver Dart have you heard of it!!! I acquired the beast about a year or so ago and forgot I had it until a flying chum was looking for a model that would suit a wankel engine he has redundant. I immediately thought of the Darts round profile bulkhead and thought Hmnnnn I wonder. I have also found to my delight the RCM&E 2004 plan and write up that you originally wrote which will come in very handy to complete the beauty. I will keep you up to speed with the progress and post photos.I have forgotten about the CAP already!Gazza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 The Culver Dart is nice. Keep it light. What capacity is the Wankel? I doubt if the .30 size would fly it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 It is in fact the OS .30 as you say Pete and after a trial run on the bench, indeed we now have serious reservations as to weather or not it would suit the Dart? There's loads of grunt like a .40 two stroke on a 9x6 prop but starts to struggle at around 10x7 upwards.The wankel is an interesting engine and I feel sure in a lighter aircraft would be an excellent choice but like you say Peter not the Culver Dart. So were open to suggestions, I really want to go the four stroke route, I'm a sucker for OS so it will probably be a .52........ I have a .52 in a wot 4 that has a million hrs on it and still runs like a well oiled fiddler elbow!Here's a picy.Gazza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 I used a Super Custom (SC) 52 and that was perfect for the Culver Dart. That big cowl does need a fairly big propeller. That is a smart looking model and the cowl is neat. I never saw the final plastic one or the canopy.I found the Dart a lovely model to fly and very aerobatic. I took her along to one of out fying sites. The owner is a keen homebuilder and has several other people's lanes based there, like a mini Old Warden This chap has designed a superb and highly acl=claimed two seat aerobatic biplane.He looked at th Dart and said "You will never get that out of a spin.I spent the rest of the afternoon plutting it into every sort of spin I could think of and watching it come out with no fuss or bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Dont you just love it when a plan comes together! I must say it does look a handfull but with all that wing area should float like a butterflie!! (Or sting like a bee!!) I will let you know Pete......... Watch this space....!!Gazza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 I think you will love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Sorry Pete I got a bit carried away with the Dart and hijacked the thread subject. So I'm bouncing this back to the top. (Will feature the Dart's progress in a separate thread later mate)Any one else had a problem with the .40 size Kyosho CAP 232 and it's challenging flying characteristics................?Here's a picture of my burden, shame as its quite pretty really.Gazza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Yes, I know, they do look good. I am not sure about the sizes but if you were to take my CAP 21 wing and fit that it might just transform the model.At least you would save half of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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