Pat (rActive) Harbord Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I agree Erfolf, it all comes down to money in the end "Your ideas are worthless, unless they are in our employment, then they may have some worth. Which sums up, without money or the backing of a company prepared to fight, it is difficult to enforce your rights." very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I read a tread on rc groups about this suject and now can not find it to link. It nammed a designer who stoped a laser cutting company from producing kits from his plans. This was in the US so the law may be different here. If some one bought a plan and commisioned laser cutting this was leagal but to produce kits and sell them was not. There was alot of debate and no hard answers. It seems copyrigh law is so commonly broken it is not enforced strictly untill the scale gets big enough to warrent the costs of doing so. But it seems there are many grey areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Copyright exists on the actual plan - that collection of marks in that specific arrangement on the paper or other media. Nothing more. If you redraw the plan with a different logo in the corner and sell it you are not guilty of breaching copyright. You have, for the purposes of copyright, created a new plan; over which you have copyright. However, in contrast, if you were to photo-reproduce the original plan and then sell it you are guilty of copyright theft. This is not a new plan, this is an identical copy of an existing plan. So, the situation as regards copyright is quite simple I believe - assuming you do not intend to reproduce an exact copy of the plan, you do not have any problems with copyright. Reproducing the shapes of components in another medium (wood) is not a breach of copyright. Redrawing those shapes in AutoCAD or whatever is not a breach of copyright either. The copyright only exists on that plan in its entirety - in that exact form - not to individual elements of it. So, with all that out of the way do you have a problem at all? Well the answer is "maybe" - but it's not with copyright it's with theft of intellectual property. The question is "is replicating the design, as an idea, a theft of intellectual property?" These are much murkier waters and this a much more difficult question to answer. How much of the design of a model aeroplane can a designer truly claim is their unique intellectual property? Most model aeroplanes are very generic - ie similar. In probably nearly every case you could argue that the shape of that wing was previously used on such and such model, that nose profile was previously used on another model, that fin shape is the same as some third model. And so on. Its a minefield. But I would take comfort from the following 1. Assuming you are not reproducing a "big name" design, then there isn't enough money in model aeroplanes to make it worthwhile suing you! 2. If you make a few detailed design changes they would need the sort of lawyers Microsoft can afford to stand even a remote chance of sucessfully establishing theft of IP - and see point 1. 3. If you are challenged, just point out that plans (the true and freely acknowledged copyright property of the designer/publisher) are being sold on the back of your activity therefore they should be thanking you - in fact, now they have got in touch, you'd like to negotiate a commission on the plan sales! 4. If its for a few mates - who the hell is ever going to know? (I didn't say that! ) BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat (rActive) Harbord Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 from gov.com ‘Fair dealing’ is a legal term used to establish whether a use of copyright material is lawful or whether it infringes copyright. There is no statutory definition of fair dealing - it will always be a matter of fact, degree and impression in each case. The question to be asked is: how would a fair-minded and honest person have dealt with the work? so no grey areas as such, but you only get clarity when you test the law against specific scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pearce 4 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well my original question appears to have started a meandering debate. I still think Dave Hopkin's original reply contained good info and good sense. To cover a couple of points raised; I will not be illegally copying any plans. If I wish to start selling more than 4 or 5 parts sets to mates, I will contact the designer/publisher first. I am only looking at fairly old plans with no part sets available. That's my final comment, I'll let others comment further if they wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Although, this is not quite Davids original question. I wonder what issues 3d printing will through up, where the original form can be replicated very accurately. The materials may be different. Without the permission of the originator of a form, how will the duplication of that form be viewed? For yout own use, that is presumably OK,but say a replacement part in a factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Posted by Erfolg on 13/02/2015 20:29:11: Although, this is not quite Davids original question. I wonder what issues 3d printing will through up, where the original form can be replicated very accurately. The materials may be different. Without the permission of the originator of a form, how will the duplication of that form be viewed? For yout own use, that is presumably OK,but say a replacement part in a factory. If 3D printing were to be used in conjunction with a 3d laser mapping scan of the original it would be theft of Intelectual property rights IF it were sold for commercial purposes, technically it would still be threft if done for personal use but I dont think anyone would bring an action for that. If a similar part but not totally identical then it would in itself become an original item - unless the original manufacturer could prove that you had significantly used their design It all becomes very murky and grey area, where there are so many variables and nuances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncebounce crunch Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You blokes are making it too confusing. just change one letter in the name of the model and say you are from China, there problem solved. Wot-4 now the Hot-4 Great Planes Mustang now the Great Pranes Mustang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerOC Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Posted by Plummet on 13/02/2015 18:31:49: Just to add to the gerneral confusion...... One... I wanted to copy model plans so that I could build over the copies and keep the originals pretty - and a well known stationary company that I will not name but they sell computers, paper, and STAPLES and the like refused to do so for copyright reasons. I had had verbal permission from the supplier to do this, but no go. Staples are wrong in their interpretation. When you buy a kit which includes the plans then you also empowered by the seller of those plans to use them for the purpose for which they were intended. You are specifically empowered under UK (EU) copyright law to make copies of the plans for your own personal use. You may not sell or give away copies (also construed as sell in this context). Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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