avtur Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Posted by Cuban8 on 30/05/2015 13:17:08: Just Googled some figures. Between 2010 and 2013, 7200 people were killed on the UK's roads. Extrapolating the figures to date means we're almost certain to be over the 10000 mark by now. Just imagine that, the population of a typical fair sized town wiped out every five years or so. Hysteria about 'poison chicken' in the papers, yet we still accept the road carnage almost without thought. That's a very good point, the fatality rate has been falling for the past 10 years or more, back in 2000 there were nearly 3500 fatalities, in 2013 the figure had fallen to just over 1700. The figure for 2014 actually rose slightly on the 2013, but in general figures are at an all time low. That may come as something of a surprise given the poor driving we see on the roads every day. It is probably the improvements in vehicle engineering which accounts for some of the reducing fatality figures. Cuban8 makes a really good point about comparing the number of road deaths with other potential threats to our wellbeing. The recently identified 'potentia'l threat from eating chicken has made headlines in all forms of news media, the chances of death are remote, but there is certainly the potential for many upset stomachs, some could be quite severe. And yet we (as a society) appear to be accept that we loose 1700 lives a year to motoring incidents but where are the headlines about this? All road deaths are preventable, yet we accept 1700 per year and there are few news headlines about it. As individuals we may have concerns about this and anyone who has suffered such a loss among family and/or friends will be particularly sensitive about it. Yet somehow 'we' as a society at large don't appear to be doing too much to reduce the figure. Edited By avtur on 31/05/2015 00:51:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Sadly preventing road deaths comes down to a cost/benefit equation, it's harsh and brutal but true - we as a society could dramatically lower fatalities by imposing a 10mph speed limit but the costs of that on business would be huge and I suspect unacceptable to the majority of people. Equally stark and brutal is the concept of an "acceptable casualty rate" the lower we set that the more restrictive and limited our driving experience becomes - where that balance lies along the scales will be a personal view influenced by our life experiences and will vary from one extreme to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Fledermaus Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 If the Government were really serious about reducing road deaths, they would change the law to impose a twelve month ban on drivers caught using a hand held mobile phone. These clowns are a danger to themselves, but more importantly to other road users. I don't care if they kill themselves through their own stupidity, but they can easily kill one of our loved ones. If using a hand held phone is as dangerous as drink driving, why doesn't carry the same penalty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lawrence 1 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I totally agree with Dai regarding the penalties for using a hand held phone whilst driving. Its about time that phone usage whilst driving was jumped on. With regard to dashboard cams just be aware that if you have one fitted and permanently wired as I have, then you may need to pay extra on your car insurance. Not all insurers will allow you to fit a camera without your premiums increasing. If you have one fitted and permanently wired without notifying your insurer then it's highly likely your insurance will be invalidated. Also, is my car now classed as a drone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essjay Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 One of things that's not been mentioned so far is the so called 'crash for cash' scam which is a countrywide problem. This is where two 'scammers' in separate cars conspire to force you to drive into the back of one of them, by claiming he had to brake suddenly because of the other car (his cohort) who has conveniently driven off, leaving you with what would appear to be a hefty insurance bill. A dash camera in this instance has shown to provide invaluable evidence to the police, not just that it's a scam, but the identification of the 'pond life' concerned. Edited By Essjay on 31/05/2015 10:06:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stringer Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 This is the one i have .. £17.35 with free postage from the UK warehouse .. i am happy with it ... leave it plugged into the 12V socket and it turns on when you start the car and off when you stop .. nothing to think about or remember .. loop records to keep the card full. Also a camera / video camera if you needed it having a built in battery http://eu.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-2_7-Inch-LCD-HD-1080P-Car-Dashboard-DVR-Recorder-Camera-G-sensor-wp-Uk-74837.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Posted by Essjay on 31/05/2015 10:05:29: A dash camera in this instance has shown to provide invaluable evidence to the police, not just that it's a scam, but the identification of the 'pond life' concerned. Usually by nonindigenous 'pond life'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essjay Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Posted by Mark Stringer on 31/05/2015 11:11:25: Also a camera / video camera if you needed it having a built in battery. A built in battery (usually a lipo) can be useful, but could also be a problem in hot weather. Dash cameras which are left in the windscreen permanently can get VERY hot in the sun (yeah! even in this country). We all know as aeromodellers what can happen to a lipo if it overheats. So a lot of dash-cam producers supply their cameras with 'super capacitors" instead of batteries. These capacitors charge up when you turn the ignition on (usually in a few seconds), and provide enough power to safely save the last file and shut the camera down when you switch off, and also enough to keep the on board clock going for up to a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Posted by adrian lawrence 1 on 31/05/2015 09:54:40: With regard to dashboard cams just be aware that if you have one fitted and permanently wired as I have, then you may need to pay extra on your car insurance. Not all insurers will allow you to fit a camera without your premiums increasing. If you have one fitted and permanently wired without notifying your insurer then it's highly likely your insurance will be invalidated. Also, is my car now classed as a drone? Why would your insurance go up with a camera fitted.? I also believe that insurance companies want the ones with GPS included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I understand the police in the UK are still actively seeking to have access to a car's ECU that's been involved in an accident or used in a crime (as have been the police in the U.S.A.) because it carries more pertinent data than a camera can give, ie. Accurate speed, throttle angle, G force, brake pedal force etc. See HERE for or more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Fledermaus Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Posted by Peter Miller on 31/05/2015 12:39:24: Posted by adrian lawrence 1 on 31/05/2015 09:54:40: With regard to dashboard cams just be aware that if you have one fitted and permanently wired as I have, then you may need to pay extra on your car insurance. Not all insurers will allow you to fit a camera without your premiums increasing. If you have one fitted and permanently wired without notifying your insurer then it's highly likely your insurance will be invalidated. Also, is my car now classed as a drone? Why would your insurance go up with a camera fitted.? I also believe that insurance companies want the ones with GPS included. According the Auto Express magazine " some insurance offer a discounted premium on the condition that dash cams are permanently installed and always running when you are behind the wheel" I'm not sure what's their definition of "permanently installed" Edited By Dai Fledermaus on 31/05/2015 14:00:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Posted by Cuban8 on 30/05/2015 13:17:08: Just Googled some figures. Between 2010 and 2013, 7200 people were killed on the UK's roads. Extrapolating the figures to date means we're almost certain to be over the 10000 mark by now. Just imagine that, the population of a typical fair sized town wiped out every five years or so. Hysteria about 'poison chicken' in the papers, yet we still accept the road carnage almost without thought. Ah but 100% of all people who have died have drunk water. Therefore, extrapolating this further, in the same way that you have, if we wish to lower the death rate then we should all stop drinking! It is not 'road carnage' as you put it Cuban but a statistic without any meaningful reference. Here are the ONS stats: **LINK** Interestingly there are more deaths due to accidental poisoning than road related deaths! This must be read with caution however as the real figure is usually quoted by 100,000 of population to account for variation in population. There's no point in stating with absolute panic that 100 people have died from measles in a population of a billion people, ignoring the same 100 people dying in a population of 10,000 in the next country which does not have the vaccine. This is interesting: **LINK** So, given the correct comparison structure, the number of deaths per 100,000 population, there are less road deaths in the UK than anywhere else in Europe! Hardly 'carnage'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogs Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I cant help thinking this is the thin edge of the wedge. Dashboard Cameras Cyclists personal cameras (Police and Traffic wardens too) Spectacles with Heads Up Displays Hands free mobile phones Implanted microchips WE ARE BORG - YOU WILL BE ASSIMULATED - RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Posted by John F on 01/06/2015 12:06:51: Posted by Cuban8 on 30/05/2015 13:17:08: Just Googled some figures. Between 2010 and 2013, 7200 people were killed on the UK's roads. Extrapolating the figures to date means we're almost certain to be over the 10000 mark by now. Just imagine that, the population of a typical fair sized town wiped out every five years or so. Hysteria about 'poison chicken' in the papers, yet we still accept the road carnage almost without thought. Ah but 100% of all people who have died have drunk water. Therefore, extrapolating this further, in the same way that you have, if we wish to lower the death rate then we should all stop drinking! It is not 'road carnage' as you put it Cuban but a statistic without any meaningful reference. Here are the ONS stats: **LINK** Interestingly there are more deaths due to accidental poisoning than road related deaths! This must be read with caution however as the real figure is usually quoted by 100,000 of population to account for variation in population. There's no point in stating with absolute panic that 100 people have died from measles in a population of a billion people, ignoring the same 100 people dying in a population of 10,000 in the next country which does not have the vaccine. This is interesting: **LINK** So, given the correct comparison structure, the number of deaths per 100,000 population, there are less road deaths in the UK than anywhere else in Europe! Hardly 'carnage'. One can make statistics say pretty much what you want and persuade people to act in a certain manner or change their opinions depending on how information is presented - very often in very clever and subtle ways. I'm sorry, but I think carnage is the correct noun to use in connection with the thousands of individuals killed on our roads each year. The frame of reference is the horror/blood factor. Have a thousand individuals killed in one go by some terrible disaster and it's in the media like a shot, but the slow and steady round the clock deaths on our roads is accepted with a shrug of the shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I can give you an incontrovertible statistic. 100% of people will die. Now who is going to start coming up with ways to prevent this. THis thread was about dashcams and how they can help prove who is innocent and who is guilty in a crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eflightray Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 For some really frightening dash cam footage of just how dangerous it can be, the Channel 5 'Car Crash TV' shows just what can get caught on camera. It would probably be difficult to verbally explain what happened, and be believed. Car Crash TV episodes. -- **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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