First ever flight

[Mark Kettle 1]

I did my post / reply on first page to :.- Dave Allen 2

Now it's labelled as :.- ZinZan ??? So welcome ZinZan to model RC flying.

[Jon Laughton]

Donald Fry: the sanctimony in your comments to David Hopkin about his posts is exactly what you are criticising him for! Pots and kettles eh?

I know David personally, he is our club safety officer, is a fine fellow, does a great job, creates fantastic one off models & is always polite & extremely helpful. Stand by all his comments and mine and we didn't even confer on this issue yet!

[MattyB]

Interesting one. Having read the thread I can see issues (and some good things too) in multiple areas:

• The OP made a good decision to join a club in the first place;
• EITHER the club didn't do a good enough induction, otherwise he would have taken his first flight whilst accompanied by an experienced pilot, OR;
• The OP made a bad decision to go against the advice from his club and take his first flight unaccompanied and (probably) in unsuitable conditions for his model;
• The OP made a good decision to post his experience here to get help and guidance;
• Some respondents were probably a little too vociferous/combative in the way they expressed their views on his decision to fly alone, however well meant;
• The OP made a bad decision to take these comments at face value and disengage from the forum.

This challenge is (IMO) the key one facing the hobby today. No, not "drones", the increasing average age of modellers, the death of "real building" or the BMFA... it's knowledge transfer. How do we take the enthusiastic newcomers of the future (whatever age they are and interest in aeromodelling they may have) and turn them into experienced, responsible pilots?

Why is this a problem now? I guess it is because modelling (or at least getting to the stage where you can have a go at actual flying) has got much easier. In the past there was lots of complexity and barriers to entry - newcomers had to build a flyable model from a kit or plan which took time, patience, skill and normally some tutelage from a parent or mentor. This meant those entering the hobby normally had a practical bent and were by nature fairly patient and pragmatic in general. It also meant they were starting out from within a club environment in the vast majority of cases where they could soak up information from experienced modellers; going it alone was just too difficult and the chances of success were very slim.

Fast forward to today, and most of those barriers are gone. Modern radios and the ARTFs, PNPs and BNFs that go with them are cheap, well made (in the main) and reliable. Electric flight is safe, clean, lightweight and (mostly) quiet. Gyro stabilisation has meant active safety aids can be added to fixed wing aircraft to make "go it alone" self trainers a viable proposition, and of course they have also opened up a whole new class of aircraft in terms of the multirotors. Social media and forums provide a wealth of information to newcomers when they get stuck. Finally the majority of working age people are now time poor, making the ARTF/PNP/BNF pathway even more tempting. All except the absence of usable free time are (IMO) good things that can be used to help build a healthy future for our sport.

However, there is one negative result... To a newcomer the local club now looks a far less tempting proposition. Why would I pay all that money and have to travel for ages in the car to tootle about with an instructor on the buddy lead when I can organise an informal group of friends via social media to fly the multirotors we bought from Maplin in my local park? It's a difficult sell. Newcomers are not scared of the implications of the ANO, CAP658 or flying without insurance simply because they do not know anything about them and do not perceive what they are doing as potentially dangerous. Of course those with experience know that you cannot learn airmanship online, and that there are things that are picked up far easier and quicker under the guidance of an experienced structure - how much wind is too much for my model, how do I adjust my heading to give the right track on landing approach, how do I prevent a stall during the circuit etc. Modern "teach yourself" models are getting very good and undoubtedly offer a safer route for parkflier newcomers in the past, but it remains the case that you have a much higher chance of learning successfully and without accidents with an experienced helper alongside.

The answer? I am not sure, or even if there is one. All I know is that it is going to take a multifaceted approach from the likes of the BMFA, CAA and model clubs - just trying to get everyone who buys a flying model in their local toyshop to join a club will not work. For as long as "just go fly" products are on sale without restrictions there will be people who buy them, charge them and attempt to fly them in their nearest open space, so I suspect we are going to have to steel ourselves for increased regulation in the future in the form of mandatory insurance and/or competency testing, like it or not.

Even so, I think it is up to all of us with experience to assume positive intent whenever we see a newcomer starting out (be that in person or online) and offer help politely and without any hostility; if we don't we might encourage that person to fly in an even less suitable manner or location. Remember, we were all newcomers once, and we all made plenty of mistakes whilst we were learning - even the club safety officer...

Edited By MattyB on 11/09/2015 13:47:55

[Rich too]

Posted by MattyB on 11/09/2015 13:17:36:

 

•  

Why is this a problem now? I guess it is because modelling (or at least getting to the stage where you can have a go at actual flying) has got much easier. In the past there was lots of complexity and barriers to entry - newcomers had to build a flyable model from a kit or plan which took time, patience, skill and normally some tutelage from a parent or mentor. This meant those entering the hobby normally had a practical bent and were by nature fairly patient and pragmatic in general. It also meant they were starting out from within a club environment in the vast majority of cases where they could soak up information from experienced modellers; going it alone was just too difficult and the chances of success were very slim.

Fast forward to today, and most of those barriers are gone. Modern radios and the ARTFs, PNPs and BNFs that go with them are cheap, well made (in the main) and reliable. Electric flight is safe, clean, lightweight and (mostly) quiet. Gyro stabilisation has meant active safety aids can be added to fixed wing aircraft to make "go it alone" self trainers a viable proposition, and of course they have also opened up a whole new class of aircraft in terms of the multirotors. Social media and forums provide a wealth of information to newcomers when they get stuck. Finally the majority of working age people are now time poor, making the ARTF/PNP/BNF pathway even more tempting. All except the absence of usable free time are (IMO) good things that can be used to help build a healthy future for our sport.

I agree and disagree. I got into it 35 years ago because I enjoyed modelling and the challenge of flying - more of a challenge than it is today with the technology as you point out - and I enjoyed learning myself, by trial and error. I even taught a mate to fly. I agree with the time poor comment. I definitely haven't got time to travel and spend all day at a club - most of my flying is a quick hour here and there.

This is a hobby, and people should be left to enjoy it however they chose (with insurance ). People will either be sensible by nature or not, and you cannot change that. But there is already too much H&S in this world and this hobby doesn't need it. perhaps that's the problem with clubs

 

 

Edited By Rich2 on 11/09/2015 13:36:06

Edited By Rich2 on 11/09/2015 13:37:34

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/09/2015 14:56:41

[Don Fry]

Jon Laughton, sanctimony, and there you go, always thought I was an atheist. And I am sure David Hopkin is big enough and ugly enough to express himself. But I think we should simply agree to differ, and retire muttering to opposite ends of the pilot box. May your propellers remain unbroken.

[vic evans 1]

Great post Mattyb, particularly the last para.

I've been 'around the block' a few times & am not usually backward in expressing my opinions but even I was gobsmacked by the harsh comments in some of the posts.

Real or not the OP has raised a very valid question as to how newbies should be treated.

Nobody should be in doubt that model flying could be dangereous, the operative word being 'could', & I think everyone is aware of the need to conserve rapidly diminishing flying sites but seriously, if all newcomers are treated like some here treated the OP there will be no future members & no need for clubs & flying sites so the point of this post will be academic.

[Dave Hopkin]

Posted by Donald Fry on 11/09/2015 14:17:45:

Jon Laughton, sanctimony, and there you go, always thought I was an atheist. And I am sure David Hopkin is big enough and ugly enough to express himself. But I think we should simply agree to differ, and retire muttering to opposite ends of the pilot box. May your propellers remain unbroken.

Certainly ugly enough anyway.......

[John Howes]

Posted by Rich2 on 11/09/2015 13:33:09:

Posted by MattyB on 11/09/2015 13:17:36:

Why is this a problem now? I guess it is because modelling (or at least getting to the stage where you can have a go at actual flying) has got much easier. In the past there was lots of complexity and barriers to entry - newcomers had to build a flyable model from a kit or plan which took time, patience, skill and normally some tutelage from a parent or mentor. This meant those entering the hobby normally had a practical bent and were by nature fairly patient and pragmatic in general. It also meant they were starting out from within a club environment in the vast majority of cases where they could soak up information from experienced modellers; going it alone was just too difficult and the chances of success were very slim.

Fast forward to today, and most of those barriers are gone. Modern radios and the ARTFs, PNPs and BNFs that go with them are cheap, well made (in the main) and reliable. Electric flight is safe, clean, lightweight and (mostly) quiet. Gyro stabilisation has meant active safety aids can be added to fixed wing aircraft to make "go it alone" self trainers a viable proposition, and of course they have also opened up a whole new class of aircraft in terms of the multirotors. Social media and forums provide a wealth of information to newcomers when they get stuck. Finally the majority of working age people are now time poor, making the ARTF/PNP/BNF pathway even more tempting. All except the absence of usable free time are (IMO) good things that can be used to help build a healthy future for our sport.

I agree and disagree. I got into it 35 years ago because I enjoyed modelling and the challenge of flying - more of a challenge than it is today with the technology as you point out - and I enjoyed learning myself, by trial and error. I even taught a mate to fly. I agree with the time poor comment. I definitely haven't got time to travel and spend all day at a club - most of my flying is a quick hour here and there.

This is a hobby, and people should be left to enjoy it however they chose (with insurance ). People will either be sensible by nature or not, and you cannot change that. But there is already too much H&S in this world and this hobby doesn't need it. perhaps that's the problem with clubs

Edited By Rich2 on 11/09/2015 13:36:06

Edited By Rich2 on 11/09/2015 13:37:34

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/09/2015 14:56:41

Thanks Rich!

Finally at least one other flyer I agree 100% with.

It's a fun hobby.