Which radio 2016

[Bob Cotsford]

it's another slow day at work trying to push a CR through. What else am I going to do in between emails?

[Bruce Austin]

Wow thank you for raising my awareness of, and the how to, of the "Model Wizard".

I had a quick scratch in there, looks great.

I did follow the your detailed instructions, Andy and I am able navigate through. Thank you for all the "spoon feeding" essential for me I can assure you.

Bob I did sample the naming text on companion, and of course that is all straight forward.

I have been going through the Open TX University tutorial, and had been attempting the naming aspects on the Taranis TX simulator buttons as if I was using the actual TX.

All is good, thank you, and I do appreciate the banter between you both.

Go With the Flow

Bruce

[Andy48]

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 09/02/2016 13:42:28:

it's another slow day at work trying to push a CR through. What else am I going to do in between emails?

I've heard of this thing called "work", must Google it sometime.

[Bob Cotsford]

Bruce, once you get your mind in the right 'set' it starts to fall into place pretty quickly.

Andy, it's neat, they give me beer/model tokens for sitting at a desk browsing the internet in between telling people 'no, we can't possibly do what you want without a 6 month analysis". The downside is that occasionally they call me up at 3 in the morning to discuss the fact that the system has stopped working. Swings and roundabouts eh?

[Andy48]

Doesn't sound too bad. I had a very pressurised job, worked long hours (no overtime of course), had a dreadful boss who was systematically getting rid of our team of 8 one by one any any means fair or foul. I was the last and she had to settle for early retirement. I've never looked back, she moved jobs and within 3 years had made the national press due to major failings and resigned. Now she runs her own management training - I dread to think!

Me, I get free beer and plenty of time to build. Just had a pang of conscience and decided I must do something useful, so out in the garden. Hmmm lasted 10 minutes and decided to put that off for later. The joys of retirement.

 

Sorry Bruce. ..

Edited By Andy48 on 09/02/2016 14:51:18

[Andrew Whiting]

Bruce you've had some good advice on here - having used a Taranis from relatively early on as long as you can get your head around the "work flow" of programming a model its easy enough to use both on the transmitter and on the PC. In fact I only go back to the PC now when I have complicated stuff to set up as I tend to use existing models as templates

One thing you need to decide on is a channel standard - I use the Futaba standard but Spektrum is just as valued and probabaly more common now - all that means is which receiver channels you'll plug which servos into etc. It makes it much easier to template models across.

As a newbie "debugging" a new model at the field will be easier if you have some common ground with who you fly with

I also use set channels for certain things on all models and set switches and switch orientations for flight modes and flap functions etc.

[Bruce Austin]

Yes Andrew

I had been wondering about which sequence might an appropriate and consistent standard to use.

My current TX is Futaba T6J set up is what I am familiar with, but I have an open mind so we'll see what decisions are made in due course.

Seems to me, I am coming into my "radio upgrade" requirements at a good time, now that the Taranis TX and Companion are so well and truly established in our hobby. All very exciting, so much to learn, so many advantages, so little money.

Go With the Flow

Bruce

[Andy48]

Hi Bruce

One brilliant thing about the Taranis, is that you can forget all your old conventions, indeed the advice seems to be leave any preconceived ideas behind.

Personally I use TERA. Why? Almost all my planes now operate on single servos for each aileron, there are so many advantages to doing this such as flapperons, differentials etc. Therefore with channel 4 being the first aileron, channel 5 becomes the second.

Changing over models does not matter. FrSky channels are simply numbered 1 to 8.

Also OpenTX has a great new feature that allows you to set up global functions, so if you standardise on certain switches for particular functions, you can set them up once, and they will work on all models. e.g. I use this to set S2 the rotary knob to give me volume control, and set up 2 switches for triple rates, and use the global functions to activate an appropriate voice message when a switch is changed.

[Bruce Austin]

Well the studying of all this Taranis plus, companion, simulator, and University is all going well. Thank you to you all for the support.

Now comes the next bit of decision making, or at least, the options for, which TX Plus switch for which function.

I fly Mode 2 (Throttle and rudder on left, and the ailerons,elevator on the right) I fly mainly six channel gliders (with flaps plus throttle) for a bit of thermalling and will be progressing toward some slope soaring too.

All I am looking for here, are the preferences that the various users have settled on, and their reasons why.

Once I have looked at the more popular arrangements, I can then pick out one as my own standard configuration.

I can already see some merit in the TERA programming sequence suggested by Andy.

So now to the hardware switches and sliders??????

I am all ears.

Go With the Flow

Bruce

[Bob Cotsford]

Bruce, I'm still using the same rate switch and retract assignment that was default on my FF6, 7, 8 and 9. It saves reprogramming brain cells as they're getting to be in short supply. Sprung switch is throttle cut for IC. In front of that is retracts as that's how I've had them configured for the last 4 transmitter generations. Right rotary on the front controls choke and left rotary controls the ignition on petrol models (so I can kill the ignition using my left hand if need be), left slider flaps, top left switches control flight modes/crow/flap/flapperon selection. It really doesn't matter what convention you choose as long as you keep to it.

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 10/02/2016 15:07:19

[Andrew Whiting]

Whilst with the taranis you can leave old pre conceptions at the door some standards do help

 

here's what is pretty standard across mine switch wise - I've got some logical switches on some models as well and I loosely follow the Futaba channel standard as it "makes sense" in my own head.

front face top left 3 position switch - dual/triple rates

front face top left long switch between short 3 position switch and rotary adjuster - flaps on powered models

Top face left hand side 3 position switch - flight modes - cruise, normal, thermal

top face left hand side rotary - global variables

top face left hand side 2 position switch - landing mode - overide flight mode to normal - kill throttle and slave crow brakes to throttle switch (and cancels ail diff on one of my models now I've got it working will go to other models)

Front face Right hand side long 3 position switch rudder to aileron link. powered and glider 0 - 10% - 20%

top right top face 3 position switch - engine/ motor safety switch. - off (ignition off, ignition on choke control active, ignition on choke off) (choke only on petrols)  

 

trainer switch - trainer or tow release on gliders and tugs.

 

Left hand slider - throttle on my easy glider ( - I tend to experiment on this model) and "speed bar" on an RC paraglider

Right hand slider - choke

I'm playing around with a taxi flight mode triggered by a logical switch sequence on one very powerful plane i've built up - essentially to limit throttle output and dump all the lift off the wing should I accidentally knock the throttle on the ground. It could be huge over kill but its a fun experiment.

I've also got a 3D model where I'm playing with "Snap flap" and the flight modes also select or deselect the flaps to slave to the ailerons.

 

 

Edited By Andrew Whiting on 11/02/2016 13:07:39

[Andy48]

I think the bottom line is that it is not always possible to assign every switch with a unique function. While there may be a plethora of switches, far more than one could possibly ever need, after a time one discovers more uses for the switches and then there are never enough. It works for the first few models you program, and after that ..... hmmm.

Wait until you delve into flight modes!

Common ones always used can be set in global functions/hardware on the general edit. (Why, oh why can't you adjust the backlight with a pot like you can the volume???)

The other solution is to have a text file which displays switch and other functions when you switch to that model, and also set warnings for crucial switch positions. -model edit settings.

Edited By Andy48 on 11/02/2016 18:03:14

[Bruce Austin]

Ah yes Andy, but you are a bit ahead of my aspirations for switch allocation, texts.........and things.

At this stage I'm really just looking at the first step past the basics to see preferences for E glider six surface control switches for mixes. Hmmmmm that almost sounds like I know what I am talking about.

Actually A wee while ago I bought some of Paul Naton's Downloads for tuning and thermaling and other glider related aspects. They have given me some great insight into the mechanics of what makes them fly well. Certainly helped me understand and sort out some of the quirks with my Phoenix 2000 and 1600.

That was where the realisation came from, that perhaps my T6J was a limiting factor, for my "further development", and hence my question which started this particular thread.

Just by the way, I took some time, this balmy afternoon, to maiden my E Zulu Wing along with the Red Kites on the Chilterns. SUNSHINE, what a great afternoon and even had some thermals, so the Kites told me!

Wing still in one piece. I see that, that also has a dedicated place in Wizard on the Taranis Plus.

Go With theFlow

Bruce

[Andy48]

Hi Bruce, I realise it might be a bit premature, however, it was more of a gentle reminder that once you get wrapped up with the Taranis, some of those best laid organisational plans simply fly out of the window.

Great stuff, I'm hoping to get out tomorrow. You won't have much problem setting a wing up. I have one and it was simplicity itself.

I think you have appreciated what the Taranis is all about, it not only frees you from the constraints of pre-programmed radios, but at the same time one learns a great deal about the mechanics of setting a plane up well. Glad that it appears to meet your needs. Helps keep the old brain ticking over. Enjoy!

See a few kites near where my son lives, but haven't seen any up here. Beautiful birds.

[Andy48]

This is what the startup text screen looks like if you set one up. Just gives a reminder of what everything does. It is simply a text file that you put in. I'm just about running out of switches as you can see!

Edited By Andy48 on 11/02/2016 20:17:14

[MattyB]

Posted by Bruce Austin on 10/02/2016 14:39:11:

Now comes the next bit of decision making, or at least, the options for, which TX Plus switch for which function.

I fly Mode 2 (Throttle and rudder on left, and the ailerons,elevator on the right) I fly mainly six channel gliders (with flaps plus throttle) for a bit of thermalling and will be progressing toward some slope soaring too.

All I am looking for here, are the preferences that the various users have settled on, and their reasons why.

Once I have looked at the more popular arrangements, I can then pick out one as my own standard configuration.

I can answer his one conclusively for you Bruce... The configuration you should use is the one that is most logical to you, and you alone!

I have seen this a lot when people move to a TX with assignable switches - they either try to replicate the switch positions on their old TX, or try and find a consensus from their peers on the "right" setup. To me both of these are the wrong approach. Why? Well there is a good chance the layout of your previous TX was suboptimal in your eyes (I have never owned a TX with fixed switch assignment where I thought all the controls were exactly where I would have put them). Trying to replicate it might make the new TX more usable in the short term, but long term you would be better learning a new but optimised layout. Similarly taking the views of your peers on what is the "best" layout is just a likely to result in a setup which you don't like. It all comes down to the fact that with a fully customisable TX layout you make the decisions. I would not be too keen to settle on a layout quickly - instead setup a few simple models with your best guess, then fly them and see if the controls lie under your fingers. If they don't, move them until they do - that is then your base setup you can use as a default moving forward. Good luck!

[MattyB]

Bruce, just remembered this - it's a very complex but well documented setup for an e-soarer from Mike Shellim. Try downloading it into Companion and having a little play - the complexity might blow your mind somewhat(!), but if you read the docs on how to use it Mike's setups are very simple to use and fly with.

[Bruce Austin]

Not yet pressed the button, but I have been doing a bit of the recommended studies, and also fiddling with the Open TX Simulator. It all looks very promising and the basics seem well within my capabilities. Thank you for the links to Open TX University and Scott Pages Videos.

I think I am understanding most things very well, but here is a question. Just my curiosity at this stage.

Although I won't be requiring the capability in the beginning, when i get my Taranis Plus, I get the perception that the TX has the capability of driving up to 16 channels??? The RXs have pins for 8 servos.

So........, If my plane needed 6 servos for the flying surfaces, another for air brakes, another for landing gear, and I need throttle as well, that makes a total of 9 controls from only 8 sets of pins. Then I might want to connect a variometer telemetry. How is all that possible with just one RX???

The reason I ask this question is that when I place my order for the Taranis, I would order some receivers and variometer at the same time. I do realise that there must be a very simple answer, but I have an old fashioned head that has only been flying for two years. The answer to this, will close the last wee gap in my basic understanding of this amazing RC Technology. Thanks guys for your patience.

Go With the Flow

Bruce

[Dave Hopkin]

Easy Bruce

The Vario (or any Telemetry device plugs into a separate slot on the RX so you can use all your channels AND have telemetry....

If you have more than one telemetry device (TD) then they are daisy chained together

Cake and Eat It Monitor

[Bob Cotsford]

and for 9 or more servos you can either use a second receiver configured for channels 9-16 or one or more S-Bus decoders. XPS 10 + is just one of the many available now and will handle 11 extra servos or 10 servos and a backup receiver. The FrSky decoder does up to 4 channels which can be configured as anything from ch1 to ch17 and they can be connected using Y leads, for example I have one in each wing half an a Ta152 each driving the aileron, flap and retract unit in that wing half.

 

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 16/02/2016 15:26:57

[MattyB]

Posted by Bruce Austin on 16/02/2016 14:10:03:

Not yet pressed the button, but I have been doing a bit of the recommended studies, and also fiddling with the Open TX Simulator. It all looks very promising and the basics seem well within my capabilities. Thank you for the links to Open TX University and Scott Pages Videos.

I think I am understanding most things very well, but here is a question. Just my curiosity at this stage.

Although I won't be requiring the capability in the beginning, when i get my Taranis Plus, I get the perception that the TX has the capability of driving up to 16 channels??? The RXs have pins for 8 servos.

So........, If my plane needed 6 servos for the flying surfaces, another for air brakes, another for landing gear, and I need throttle as well, that makes a total of 9 controls from only 8 sets of pins. Then I might want to connect a variometer telemetry. How is all that possible with just one RX???

As Dave notes the telemetry devices daisy chain from a special port on the RX that uses FrSky proprietary serial protocol which they (somewhat confusingly) call S-port. Literally it is as simple as plugging your vario in and doing the relevant setup on the TX and it works; there are lots of videos on how to do this online.

Re: the 16 channels, yes, that is correct. You can get them in two ways:

1. By binding two X8R RXs to the same TX, and using the pins as you would any normal RX;
2. By binding a single X series RX (X8R, X6R, X4R-SB or the new XSR) to the module and using the S.BUS Serial port out. This can either be used with special S.BUS servos, or use as many S.BUS to PWM decoders as are needed; you decide.

If you want you can even get 32 channels(!) by plugging an additional XJT module in the port at the back, and bind it to one or two more RXs in the plane via method one or two above.

[Bruce Austin]

Wow, This is all very interesting, yet another extension to my understanding of the Taranis capabilities, and......hopefully..... to my own capabilities too.

Any chance, please, of a couple of links to videos from the accepted experts in the use or application of these S.Bus to PWM decoders, the XSRs and the tie in with the Taranis Plus. Something like Open TX University that I have been learning from in easy step by step stages????

Thanks Guys for the eye openers!!!!

Go With the Flow

Bruce

[Mike Blandford]

In passing, for anyone who 'plays' with Arduinos there are some projects that make a Pro Mini work as a 16-channel SBUS to PPM decoder. Mine is here: **LINK**.

Mike.

[MattyB]

Posted by Bruce Austin on 16/02/2016 15:58:11:

Any chance, please, of a couple of links to videos from the accepted experts in the use or application of these S.Bus to PWM decoders, the XSRs and the tie in with the Taranis Plus. Something like Open TX University that I have been learning from in easy step by step stages????

Maybe this seems mean, but have you tried googling for them yourself? Because of the previously mentioned documentation gaps with OpenTX the forums and YouTube tend to be your best sources of info, but if you always have to ask others for links it is gonna delay your progress. Have a practice at looking for these yourself - use a plain English search term of decent length and Google should find what you want very quickly.

Edited By MattyB on 17/02/2016 00:10:53

[kevin lane]

Bruce, might I suggest a search for painless360 on YouTube where you will find lots of Taranis tips often with explanations a lot easier to understand than some of Scott Pages. Kevin.