Short newbie build blog

[andy watson]

OK, I appreciate before I start that this will be of limited interest to most people.  It's not a "proper" kit, and the end result is a jumper 25- AKA every other high wing trainer in existence.  Where it might be of interest is to other people just, and I mean just, starting; and to kit manufacturers (if they read this stuff) to see how they can improve.  For the record I have built a couple of kit gliders and a Magnatilla about 8-10 years ago.  So I guess that unlike most people on this site I can offer a true beginners perspective, which is the market for this type of plane.

 First impressions yesterday- fantastic.  Seems like I have a lot for my £35+p&p.  Got home, and started to build.

[andy watson]

Day #1.  Who the hell decided to call these ALMOST ready to fly.  Face facts- they are no where near ready to fly.  Call it a pre-covered airframe if you want, but this is not almost ready to fly.  There's not a cat in Hells chance that this will be built in a few hours, as is implied by the ARTF tag

. First step joining the wings- no problem.  Bracer was a snug fit, and the wings slotted on almost perfectly.  I'm thinking this will be very straight forwards.  Drying time on 2*30 minute epoxy means a bit of a wait, but ready to go again after tea.  There is some tape to go over the wing join.  Slightly awkward to get it exactly straight, but ok. 

Glueing the aileron servo bracket in place is a bit tricky- it's flat, and it's placed over the wing join- which is angled.  Do I a) glue it flat to one wing and out from the other, b) glue it flat and build up both sides with a bit of epoxy, c) cut out some wood to make a flat surface to glue it to?  In truth I doubt a or b would matter, but c sounds fraught with danger later on, so I go for b, and build up the epoxy on both sides.  Simple things like this worry a novice, and hold up the build whilst fretting time is taken.

Some trimming needed to screw the servo into place, but no problems.

Aileron connector rods.   These took hours, and there are 5 instructions.  1-Thread adjustable horns onto torque rod- this was easy when I realised they were already done for me .2- Thread clevis onto threaded wire, easy peasy  . 3- Install servo arm on servo- this is taking minutes, I'll be done soon . 4- Slide the pushrod wires through the servo as shown............what? 

This instruction stopped me dead.  There is a picture only of a single control rod floating in mid air which is now bent for no apparant reason, according to the instructions, and near by is a picture of a small plastic fastener that appears to slide over the rod, but there is no indication as to how, why or if this should be done.  There is no way I am bending anything without being 100% certain it's the right thing to do, as I know how hard it would be to get it straight again.  There's no obvious way the connector bit fit's onto a servo.  I mess around for an hour or 2 trying to figure it out, but get no where.  In the end I decide that the little round cylinders with a grub screw and 2 small bolts at servo connectors, and fit my servo to the rods using these.  I leave the rods un-cut because I am still not convinced I am right. The instructions at this point are completely unfit for purpose, and don't help at all.  .

The final instruction is to screw the servo arm back in place tightly- 10 seconds work. Too worried and annoyed to be particularly pleased

[andy watson]

Anyway, on to the fuel tank.  The "fuel pick up tube" is installed quickly and easily,   I'm starting to feel better again.  Next is the vent tube.  Technically this is easy enough, but the instructions don't make clear which of the remaining 2 tubes should be the vent.  I am not experienced enough to know if it is important.  The photographs and diagrams are far too vague and blurred.  In fact one of the paragraphs is obviously incomplete, so there are some instructions missing.  Since this tube has to be heat bent to 45 degrees, I must get the right one.  Time to fret again. .  After a good while of trying to convince myself it must be one or the other, I give up.  I don't want to make a mistake here, and remain worried about the aileron.  So I stop, and go onto the web site to look for a contact number on the website.Well suprise suprise.  On the website is a complete set of instructions.   Not the same incomplete, blurred and error ridden ones I have been using, but shiney new ones, with new clearer pictures and better explanations.  I can only assume the company realised the poor quality of the printed ones, and have attempted to correct the issue.  Well done them.  BUT WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT IF YOU DON'T TELL ANYONE?  The sensible thing for Seagull to do is throw away the old ones and include the ones off the website into the kit.  If for some incomprehensible reason this can't be done, a simple sticker, or slip of paper could tell me there are additional instructions on the web site, I would have been there 4 hours before, and not be as frustrated as I am at this point in time.

 So armed with the new set of instructions I quickly work out that they new instructions have a fuel tank with 2 in/outlets, and mine has 3.    Figure I simply need to block one, and the problem is solved.

Install the main landing gear in about 5 minutes , and the steerable nose wheel in about 15 .  Things are really looking up.Go back to the aileron control rods, and armed with some more comprehensive instruction take my old (and completely wrong) set up to pieces, and half reconnect them in about 10 minutes.  Decide it's late, and I am too grumpy to risk bending con rods tonight, and will save it till tomorrow.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Andy, well done and thanks for a very honest report so far. As you say many/most instructions assume too much - something I've been banging on about for years.

If the the fuel tank has three vents/exit tubes then - 1/ goes to the silencer nipple so the tank can be pressurised. 2/ goes to the engine carb'  3/ is the re-fill pipe that can be simply blocked off with a snug fitting screw.

Note - the tube to the carb' must be the bottom one or the one that goes to the clunk/tube inside the fuel tank. It doesn't matter which of the top two tubes do what.  

If you can post pics then so much the better.....

[Alex Hasell]

Andy,

I agree totally the instructions are pretty useless i just built the slightly larger Seagull Boomerang and had same problems why not have a look at my blog on here its just under yours on main threads page i hope this will help you or if you need to now anything just ask i will watch your progress and get back to you. I am interested in how the jumper flys so keep in touch.

Regards and Good Luck

Alex

[andy watson]

Cheers guys,

I missed your blog when I started this Alex, as I (wrongly) presumed no one else would be building an ARTF and this section would be full of huge scale projects.  I read yours last night, and wish I had taken photos- seems a bit late now.  Since I have a bigger engine than recommended maybe the boomer would have been a better choice, although I was told the jumper copes fine with the extra power and allows it to do more once I have learned the basics.  Todays installment was written earlier, but was too long to post, and I managed to lose it in trying to cut and paste.......here we go again.

Day 2

 So the shiny new internet instructions show the aileron controls clearly, and though my previous attempts were completely wrong, they were accurate.  So it's a simple matter of marking the rods where the servo connectors were, removing them and bending them.  I was very relieved they fit perfectly.   All in all a simple job made far longer than it needed to be.

Next job was to fit the fuel tank, or a dry fit at least.  Since this can easily be sumarised as shove the tank into the hole as far as it goes there can't be any problems.  And there weren't.  Well sort of.  The instructions show someone holding a pushrod against the plane, though the text makes no mention of it, a short while of fretting leaves me decided they are using it to pull the fuel pipes through, which seems excessive as it's not difficult, and I ignore it.  Fuel pipes........hmmm.  Instruction 1 is to fit 20" of silicon tubing onto the tank- silicon tubing not included. .  I understand that these kits are built to a budget, but this is one economy too far,  I mean it's not as if most people happen to have some lying around the house, and I strongly feel this should have been in the kit.  Having said that, I did have some so was able to proceed easily enough.

[andy watson]

Now comes fitting the engine, which is an exciting place to be at.  I am obviously slightly apprehensive, but ok.  I try a dry fit, and see the engine mounting is very slightly too narrow for my engine.  The recommended size for this plane is a 25/32- I am fitting a 48.  A little light trimming- and I emphasise little and light sees it slot snugly into place.

Now to the fitting.  I am very concerned that the internet instructions move smoothly from #3 to #9 without bothering to tell me about steps 4-8.  This is worrying.  Then I stop worrying because the instructions are going on about bolts, when the kit contains 4 insubstantial looking screws to hold the engine in place.   This concerns me, because I really don't want the engine to come loose.  I go back to the paper instructions, and they tell me to screw it in place, so I do.  Another simple job made harder than it needed to be.

Whilst  have been doing this I notice my front wheel isn't straight, and I have been assuming this is due to the con rod being able to move freely.  On closer (brief) inspection it looks like I might have over tightened the screw and torn through the soft plastic in the steering arm.  If so I will need a replacement.  This is frustrating, as it's very hard to know how tight is tight.  I will have a better look tonight and assess the damage.

[andy watson]

Day 3

I can't work out what's wrong with the front wheel.  The steering arm screws in fine without the wheel wire running through, but won't bite with it in.  After 30 minutes of fiddling I finally decide the end of the screw is worn, and cannibalise my crappy ebay plane to get the metal steering arm off that.  It fit's perfectly, and 10 minutes later all is well on the steering front.  I think the problem might have been I didn't notice the flattened part of the wire leading to the front wheel, so effectively put the wheel on backwards.  Checked back on the instructions- obviously there is no mention of this .

Anyway, done now.  Also connected up the throttle.

[Alex Hasell]

Andy,

Don't worry about it, The jumper and my plane are basically thesame just one slightly smaller trust me the rest is the same.

How tight is tight welll all i will say is dont over do it finger tight then a nip with the driver will do  fine what you have done is strip the thread thats why it looks worn it is VERY easy to do watch those wheel collets you will find them very easy to strip as well.

Strange about the fuel tube while i brought some meters as precaution with my kit there was a small length in the kit for use inside the tank between the clunk and fuel tube. Strongly recomend if you had this and used it dont stop and change it, its rubbish stuff it will go hard crack and come off in no time mine did after one tank of fuel. Just something to be aware 0f.

I'm on the forum all the time Andy so if durring your build if you get stuck or are just not sure about something drop it on or you PM me i will gladly share what experience i have with you.

Hope it all goes well, Alex 

[andy watson]

Hi again Alex.

I realised looking at your blog the planes were very similar, and certain bits and building methods are obviously identical (like the fuel pipe parts as you describe).

Anyway, to finish off day 3.

Short build day as I am knackered and have other plans for the evening.  After sorting out the front wheel it actually all went very well. 

Spinner and prop were attached relatively quickly and easily- just a small amount of messing to ensure the prop was completely clear of the nose cone.  No trimming was needed though.

Switch into the side was also completely trouble free, although the internet instructions show the switch mounted on the servo plate with what looks like I wire drilled through the fulelage my kit had the cut outs in the fuselage wall (a much better place).  Thanks to reading Alex's blog I attached it opposite side of the exhaust to avoid any mess from the exhaust.

3 servos to fit into the precut tray.  One needed a small amount of trimming but apart from that they also slotted straight in.

Today has gone like I expected an ARTF kit to go.  I feel like I got a lot done in a couple of hours, and have started using the instructions with a healthy dose of skeptism.  I now try work out what the bit I am working on is trying to do, and how it is designed to do it, read the instructions to check and then proceed.

[andy watson]

The good news is day 4 is progressing like day 3.

 In a little over an hour and a half I have fitted both horizontal and vertical tail pieces.  In truth most of that time was spent browsing the internet whilst epoxy cured.  Each piece slotted together perfectly, and any time taken was simply being careful to make accurate measurements on centre lines and in cutting out the covering so the epoxy can get a good grip on bare wood. The vertical slotted in at exactly 90 degrees when checked- no fiddling at all needed.

Looking like a plane now!

[Alex Hasell]

[andy watson]

Well that's it- it's finished.

The control horns and pushrods went straight into place.  I wasn't in the slightest bit worried to see the servo diagram in the instructions had servos the opposite way round to mine.  My faith in the instructions is so low I just looked at my model, worked it out and once again the instructions are wrong. 

The C of G is maybe 1/2 an inch to 3/4 too far back (it's nose heavy), but I attribute this to the bigger engine.  I have balanced it perfectly by sitting a 5mm allen key on the tail! I am wondering how to weight the back since there isn't an obvious spot- I might be able to smuggle some lead into the fuselage- I don't think I would need too much, as I have set the batteries as far back as possible.

Overall impressions?

The kit itself is pretty good.  Pieces slotted together well and construction seems solid.  The penny pinching of the missing fuel pipe was annoying, but apart from that the kit represents great value for £35.

On the down side however are the instructions.  I would go so far as to say that it is impossible to put the kit together using only the printed ones if you have no experience of these planes.  Considering this is the exact target market of the kit, then this must be a serious negative.  I started off with a bit of a rant at describing this as ARTF, which I still think is fair.  Before building this I really didn'y like the idea of ARTF as I assumed it came out built, simply slotted together and the radio gear went in.  These do still take some work.  Having said that it took 4 days to make, and I know I could comfortably make another in 1 or 2 days.  The main reason for the time saving would purely be down to not having to cope with that instruction book again!

Hope someone finds this useful/interesting.  I promise to take photos of the next one, although most of these would look exactly like Alex's excellent ones!

[Alex Hasell]

Congrats Andy,

Feels good to finish doesn't it you have your fiirst airplane sat there in all it's glory. The challenge is now to keep it that way LOL. And it's nice of you to say the above i'm pleased someone found it good and usefull i hope.

I sympathise with you about the instructions there not that good are they although i have to say mine don't seem quite as bad as yours i think that Seagull are aware of the issue as i belive there instructions are improving from what i have seen and read of late. I think what happens is the kits are made then for instance yours could of been sat in its box for a long time before you brought it and for example my kit could of been build and dispacthed from the factory last month you just don't know do you but i think this is whats going on and the reason one person seem to get good instructions and another gets rubish ones. Although with time the "older" kits will be sold leaving only the ones with fresh instructions out there for the punter to buy.

So when do you plan on flying it are you a clu member or are you going it alone?

Regards Alex

[andy watson]

Well I am currently surfing as I unplugged my charger to iron a shirt last night, and forgot to plug it back in!!!!  How dumb do I feel.   Fortunately it looks like the receiver was already charged, and the transmitter isn't far off.  I will give it an hour or so then head to the local field about lunch time.  There are a few local clubs, and hopefully the one I have chosen will work out.

There really is no excuse for the instructions being so poor, as they turned an excellent kit into one I would think twice about before buying again.  I probably still would, on balance, but I would think twice. 

[Alex Hasell]

Andy

Done my maiden today 6 flights in total what a buzz  

how are you getting on?

[andy watson]

Flew it last weekend.

Meant to post back here, but forgot.  The plane itself flew really well, according to my instructor, but we had a problem with the engine- it just kept cutting out.  I bought an OS46 and have installed that, so just waiting for some clear weather now.

The good news is I am on my holidays for the next 6 weeks, the bad news is I have a garage conversion to finish.  Spent today doing the garage to earn enough brownie points not to get shouted at if I sneak off flying when the weather turns better!

Looking to my next plane already.  Will be a reasonable size vintage from a proper kit.  In many ways this will be easier because I won't be expecting to have it finished in no time at all.  I will copy you Alex and make sure I get the camera ready this time!

[andy watson]

Got a surprise flight today.

Was off to B&Q, and the weather was fine, but windy.  Thought I would pop down since it seemed OK for experienced fliers and get the engine run in a bit.  Ran a tank of fuel through it and then the guy who is teaching me said he would take it up and see how it was.  Was going fine and he handed me the tx!

Went fine and I flew circuits for about 5 minutes without him having to grab the transmitter once!!  I then handed it back for the landing.

Just as a note the 30 minutes or so I have done messing around on a flight sim (FMS- free download, £9.99 for a cable so I could use my transmitter) was a massive help, as I could see when I made a mistake and correct it from my experience on the sim.

[Mr Sam]

the flight sims are deffinetly helping me and is deffinetly reccomended to use a transmitter gets you used to the controls when the planes coming towards you if you know what i mean

 hows it perform with a 46 in it, ive got a 40 size trainer with a 46 in it but was very tempted to buy a jumper for the smaller size getting it in and out of the car and carting around

 did you have to weight the tail down at all and is it giving you long enough flights without having to install a larger fuel tank i guess you can fly with the throttle right down too

pics pics pics  and well done on building your first ARTF my first i had help with but it soon came together and my second i did on my own all has been well apart from the pre-drilled wing nuts being in the wrong place!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[andy watson]

Flys really well with the 46, although in fairness I am not experienced enough to be able to give any real comparisons!

Flight times are about 10 minutes.  That is doing circuits so throttle is pretty light.  By the end of 10 minutes I need a break from concentrating, so it's fine.  I did have to weight the back- I epoxied a 12g bolt into the back of the fuselage.  As for pics I will try dig out a digital camera, but it looks like every other jumper!

Cheers for the advice Eric, although I am very happy with the switch where it is (it is tucked right under the wing) I will see how it fares.

[Bernie]

Eric Bray ,I always put the switch inside for reasons you have just stated , I suppose if you are a complete novice then it won't come into your head the switch is going to get clogged up with oily muck or get riped out on a heavy landing .but I guess you live and learn in modeller game ,I can spend hours in my man cave redesigning one thing or the other .but for me switch always in side .

[trebor]

Posted by Bernie on 26/11/2014 16:35:43:

Eric Bray ,I always put the switch inside for reasons you have just stated , I suppose if you are a complete novice then it won't come into your head the switch is going to get clogged up with oily muck or get riped out on a heavy landing .but I guess you live and learn in modeller game ,I can spend hours in my man cave redesigning one thing or the other .but for me switch always in side .

That`s a good point with the switch, the one I got was too small, the lever did`nt come out far enough through the balsa so I had to extend it with a small screw. Just by luck I made the hole on the opposite side from the exhaust pipe. Next one will be inside though,

[Stevo]

Bernie,

Are you aware that you are posting on a thread that is 6 years old?