Recommendations for a Suitable Patternship for a rear exhaust OS Max 40 V.

[David Davis]

Good day gentlemen

I have an OS Max 40V rear exhaust engine currently unemployed which I would like to fit to a suitably sized patternship. I should imagine that something with a wingspan of between 48 and 52 inches would be suitable. It's a shame that the old DSM Aerostar 52 is no longer available.

Kit, plan or ARTF, I am open to all suggestions.

[Nigel R]

It'll never fly.

 

Old or new style?

Chilli Wind my first suggestion for an old one.

 

Edit - the stand I mean! 

Edited By Nigel R on 16/05/2020 09:09:58

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nigel R]

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=10680

That's a 20 size Hammer. But I have somewhere the pdf of the 40 size one. Upright engine with enclosed pipe. Simple build.

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 16/05/2020 10:20:11:

Definitely a Hanno Magic 40.

**LINK**

B.

Absolutely. I agree 100%. People have forgotten or never knew just how good the 1060s-70s pattern planes by the likes of Prettner and Matt actually were. Unlike the hideous great fat things popular today they really did 'carve shapes in the sky'. Our local hero was Mick Bone.

But he will have to have a tight 'S' bend exhaust pipe between the engine and the tuned pipe to clear the nose retract and tank. Weston UK can do those. "If it's worth doing at all...etc."

[Nigel R]

Matt's arrow would be an easier build.

Or a kaos with the pipe running through the canopy.

Magic is a fairly involved build.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 17/05/2020 10:06:32:

Where were you flying? Mike Bone used to come down to Beaulieu most Sunday afternoons, it was a family outing with his parents, wife and a little black poodle all packed into his father Ron's Jaguar.

I think they had a family run building business up in the Warminster area.

I remember Mike was a very smooth flier.

Regards

Barrie

Yes, Beaulieu. He gave me the plan of what I believe was his last design, for some reason glued to a large framed sheet of hardboard, and I still have it. The model didn't have a name but it was brown and cream. Perhaps you remember it.

I believe he was getting rather bored with it all by then and was only doing it to please his father, who did most of the model construction. When his father died he stopped coming.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Nigel R on 17/05/2020 08:01:44:

Matt's arrow would be an easier build.

Or a kaos with the pipe running through the canopy.

Magic is a fairly involved build.

"We are not doing it because it is easy but because it is hard" - John F Kennedy.

And no model is "hard". Just that some are more complicated than others. That complication may or may not lead to better aerodynamics but it will certainly lead to more builder satisfaction.

If he doesn't like using the 'S' pipe it is possible to angle the Magic nosegear mechanism so it is offset to one side, avoiding the pipe but still puts the wheel down centrally and vertical. It will also mean a two-piece wing to avoid the now low rear part of the pipe but so what?

A nice rear exhaust engine like that I wouldn't dream of 'wasting' it with crude and visible 'solutions' like Matt's. It's a challenge, not a problem

[Rod Parsons 1]

Hello

A nice engine. I don’t think there is much around that would take this engine.

The plans that are linked are actually just construction guides for a glass and foam Magic kit that used to be made in Germany.

You could try and find some MK plans around on the net for a 45 size Aurora, or even a 40 sized Wolfgang Matt Arrow.

kit wise, I think there is nothing that you could just use, but would look at the Dalhotel 1500 ARF from Pichler. I think you could mod it to work.

You could find a set of 60 size Terry Westrop Loaded Dice plans and scale them down a bit.

Perhaps they did a Loaded Dice 40, but I’m not aware of that.

As an outside option, there is the old Clive Weller Murcura, Sarik plan number RM255.

I made one of the these using a clapped out side exhaust 60 ( as I was skint and had no money for a rear ex motor)

and it flew well. It was a pretty hard build, but came out light.

Personally I’d look for a Loaded Dice 40 plan, if none are around I would just scale the 60 down to say 52-55” span.

Rod

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 17/05/2020 13:39:17:

Richard

You must have been flying at Beaulieu at similar times to me. were Tom Airey and Chris Clayton flying when you were there?

I remember a brown and cream model that the Bones flew.

B.

Yes I was. Tom in particular was both a keen modeller who built all sorts of models and an excellent flyer. I'm still there but don't go so often as I used to.

Now it's mostly ARTF toys. Most are made by children from fragile over-fertilized balsa wood or from discarded washing machine packing sold in inaccurate shapes and covered in Titanic sized rivets.

But certainly not mine

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 17/05/2020 17:40:42:

Richard

I used to be out at Beaulieu pretty well every Sunday between 1977 and about 1985 when I seriously got into RC pylon racing at International level.

I cannot put a face to your name though.

I bought a Capricorn and OPS 60 from Tom and thought I would fly F3A until I realised that I preferred pylon racing.

There were some very good fliers and modellers out at Beaulieu then, in fact they were an inspiration to me.

Regards

Barrie

You probably can't - I never stood out at all and still don't. Though I used to put in a whole lot of actual flying hours on Sundays at Beaulieu. Less so nowadays. I started in the old Southampton club 'green shed' days at Southampton common, alongside Ron Clayton (control line pulse jets at Stoney Cross), Bill Besant, and Bob Moxon, later Collette-Moxon.

My main interest then was 'amateur' B Team racing at Totton Secondary Modern School tarmac playground. Nobody minded about the noise of multiple unsilenced ETA 29s then. Nor did anyone object to our crazy Super Tigre G15 powered combat at Testwood recreation ground. We helped ourselves to supposedly 'reject' Jetex motors on the dump of the nearby Jetex factory too.

My first radio model was a Veron Mini Robot single channel, also at the recreation ground. Great skill (which I didn't have) was needed to keep it within the recreation ground so there were lots of 'Can I have my toy plane back?' visits to the nearby houses.

The best model flyer I have ever known was and still is Hughie Stephens, a lifelong friend. Builder by trade, flyer of everything both model and full-size.  Also full-size  instructor.  All as  a part time hobby. It took him all of 60 seconds to fully master his first. model heli, my much modified fully aerobatic Hirobo Shuttle. He's often at Beaulieu but apart from a couple of the old 'Club 20' pylon race wins he has zero interest in competitions or formal aerobatics.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 17/05/2020 22:30:37

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nigel R]

Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 17/05/2020 13:40:23:

And no model is "hard". Just that some are more complicated than others. That complication may or may not lead to better aerodynamics but it will certainly lead to more builder satisfaction.

No, some are definitely harder and need more skill. The OP is quite a fan of the DSM kits IIRC, so I suspect what he'd like is a 40 sized foam wing and box with foam top decking type model, more akin to a small size Saphir or Supra Star.

Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 17/05/2020 13:40:23:

A nice rear exhaust engine like that I wouldn't dream of 'wasting' it with crude and visible 'solutions' like Matt's. It's a challenge, not a problem

Oh I don't know. Did Hanno waste his motors, when he turned up with a sport model with a side exhaust motor poking out the front and a pipe hanging out in the breeze underneath... and then won anyway?

[Nigel R]

Incidentally, some of the members of RCU produced a pdf of the Prettner Calypso. It is quite a simple design and could very easily be scaled down to about 52 or 55 inches.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 18/05/2020 12:28:38:

Posted by Nigel R on 18/05/2020 09:56:38:

 

 

No, some are definitely harder and need more skill. The OP is quite a fan of the DSM kits IIRC, so I suspect what he'd like is a 40 sized foam wing and box with foam top decking type model, more akin to a small size Saphir or Supra Star.

 

Oh I don't know. Did Hanno waste his motors, when he turned up with a sport model with a side exhaust motor poking out the front and a pipe hanging out in the breeze underneath... and then won anyway?

Nigel

Turning up with a sport model and winning happened in the UK before Hanno done it.

I think it was the 1975 Nationals, a chap called Keith Maundrel turned up with a model that really was little more than a stretched Gangster 63 and wiped the floor with everyone in Aerobatics, I think he came back the next year with a similar model fitted with retracts.

B.

Barrie (and Nigel)

Nothing you can actually do is 'hard', it's  only hard if  you don't know how to do it. I've found this to be true in both work and play. And if you stretch yourself to do what you initially didn't want to do  your skill increases.

For example, I've always liked the top control line stunt models, such as Bill Werwage's 'Ares', with its shark-like engine cowl, slim fuselage, and its wide wing mounted undercarriage with long slim spats. Also the best flying RC 'pattern' model I have ever found is Matt's 'Superstar' with its very thick and blunt LE wing a good move towards 'constant speed though manoevres'. The Superstar also has very thick tailplane, which MAY help to prevent tailplane stalling, which does happen though we rarely recognise it. So I built one combining the proportions and aerodynamics of the Superstar with the shapes of the Ares. Just because I could. I also used a slightly anhedralled tailplane, of Matt's thick section as the anhedral really does seem to increase smoothness, though I don't know why it does. This was some years ago though I still fly the plane.

Lat year I went further. Another favourite of mine is Juri Sirotkin's 'Spacehound' with which he won the world control line stunt champonship in 1963.. This has a very slim but deep fuselage (unlike the Ares) which helps with the modern knife edge manoeuvres. Again I kept the proportions/aerodynamics of the Superstar with the shapes of the Spacehound, even moulding thee canopy myself as it is as unusual shape.

The engine, a pumped OS FS81 four stroke, is inverted and closely cowled, same as the Ares, and I used my old control line 'team race' techniques to make the fuselage nose the same width as the engine mounting lugs. I also had Weston make me a custom flex exhaist pipe/silencer which is totally internal and goes under the (necessarily) two piece wing with carbon joiners. It exhausts downward just ahead of the tailplane and a flush NACA duct keeps it all cool. The  radio had to be distributed wherever it would fit and stay cool and the rudder/two elevator servos, all slim Multiplex 'glider' type, fit in the rudder and each tailplane half. Both planes were enlarged about 15% from the originals and are '60' pattern size. Both are built very light but amply strong. (Tapered spars, etc.)

None of this is 'hard', it's part of the fun of proper 'aeromodelling' .

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 18/05/2020 20:08:26

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 18/05/2020 20:10:29

[McG 6969]

... ooh, my goodness...

... and the poor David is still waiting for a nice solution for his OP question!

"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be anymore...", said Confucius.

Anyhow, Nigel might be right.

That tuned pipe support looks way TOO heavy...

Cheers & stay safe, gents

Chris

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by McG 6969 on 18/05/2020 20:59:55:

... ooh, my goodness...

... and the poor David is still waiting for a nice solution for his OP question!

"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be anymore...", said Confucius.

Anyhow, Nigel might be right.

That tuned pipe support looks way TOO heavy...

Cheers & stay safe, gents

Chris

He's got the Chilli Wind and Magic. Or  if he likes ugly the Kaos with the pipe going through the pilot's head, or the Arrow..

Or any side-mounted or upright  partially exposed engine design (Kaos included)  with the engine mounted inverted instead so the pipe clears the wing. Which is less of a hassle than using a side mounted 'regular' engine with a pipe.,

What else does he need?

Mount too heavy? Yeah. And that Tie-wrap will melt soon

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 19/05/2020 05:36:32

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 19/05/2020 05:49:32

[David Davis]

Thank you for the advice gentlemen. Shame no-one makes a kit anymore.

Two further questions for you.

What's the difference between the Chilli Wind and the Chill Breeze other than the speed of the wind?

Is a Vertigo just too basic to fly well compared with your other recomendations?

Edited By David Davis on 19/05/2020 09:04:17

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Might the RM Diamond fit the bill..... **LINK**

Nice simple build but the rear exhaust might mean a few modifications are required....

[Nigel R]

Some more, foam wing and deck kits:

Crescent Bullet.

Galaxy Magician

Galaxy Hornet.

All 3 are about the right size for a piped 40. Trimmed properly they will fly straight.

 

"Chilli Wind and the Chill Breeze"

Wind, 58 inches, 40-55 

Breeze, 48 inches, 25-36

Edited By Nigel R on 19/05/2020 09:14:25