Ben Buckle - Mini Super

[Trevor Meakin]

Hi All ,

 

Has Anyone built one of the Vintage Models offerd by Ben Buckle ??

 

I opted for the Mini super , as I built the Super 60 from the Keilkraft kit when I was a mere lad of 17 ,  I am now 51 .. I always liked the look of the trike undecarriage on the mini super . and thought it would be a great model to get me back into the fixed wing arena .

 

I must say I am having great fun building this ,  its not finished yet , ( should have done a photo diary ..)  the Pre Cut items are a dream and the wing ribs take the spars perfectly , However I do have one small gripe , and this is where I wonder if anyone else has experienced this , or am I the unlucky one ??

 

The amount of stock balsa leaves much to be desired , so far I have had to buy 6 Lengths of 3/16 x 3/16 spars and 1 length of 3/16 x 1/2 inch . I  know this is not a bank breaker as the extra balsa cost me under £3.00 but it was inconveniant to break off and get the stuff .

To make matters .I worse I E-Mailed Ben Buckle Models , just in case it was manufacturer error , and dissapointingly I have had No Response , not even an Acknowledgement .

 

 I am still enjoying my blast from the past , and would not put anyone off from buying one of the vintage range , but make note to check the stock ..

 

I will keep everyone posted as things progress ..both with the build , and if ever Ben Buckle get in touch ..

 

Cheers  All

 

Trev.

[Stephen Grigg]

Hi Trv,I recently purchased a Ben Buckle Red Zephyr,and it is coming up towards the build.I must say ,when I opened the box I was surprised how little was included,I have some spare balsa, hope its enough as Ive fallen out with my local model shop!

[Jimbo565]

Trevor,

 

I have the Mini Super built from the Boddington design as a tail dragger,it flys a dream and I built another wing for it with ailerons and flaps and it goes just as well.

 

its been flown  by everyone in the club and it makes an ideal trainer,mine has OS 15 power.

 

JIm

[Jimbo565]

This is it with original wing.

 

 

[Jimbo565]

Trevor.

 

Regarding Ben Buckle customer service,I have sent two emails recently enquiring about parts and as yet have had no response.

 

Jim

[Trevor Meakin]

Hi Stephen ,

 

I wish you well , keep me infromed as to how you get on ,but I suspect you had better start building bridges with your model shop ..

One thing  I did not mention above is the Keilkraft model had a great instruction manual , where as the BB version is nothing more than a couple of double sided A4 sheets , fortunalty it is a straight froward build ., how is the Red Zephyr's instructions ? ..

 

 

Jim ,

Your Mini Super , looks just that ' Super ' 

I too have an OS 15 which I intend to use , but was unsure if it would be poweful enough , you have put that thought to bed . I did toy with the idea of fitting ailerons , but decided against it. Your second wing has got me thinking , One good thing about the Plan is that it is good enougth to build from scratch with ,, I never concidered flaps though , bet she almost come to a stand still when used ..any tips on how you did it will be gratefully received .

 

I have stuck to the trike config , but must say your tail drag does look good ..

 

I hope BB comes good , because I think they are onto a real winner with such models , but need to start listening to their customers , and responding appropriatley .

 

Thanks for the response folks .

 

Trev.

 

 

[Jimbo565]

Trev

With the new wing she lands  like a butterfly with sore feet, regarding the design of the flap/aileron wing it was pure guess work and instinct,just looked at the plan and thought that looks about right and away we went.

 

If you decide to build flap wing make the ailerons same width as the flaps for more authoritive response,with the narrower ailerons the response is ok and the model will roll but it takes time and a bit of juggling with elevator and rudder.

 

Jim

 

PS  reduce dihedral to 1" under each tip.

Edited By Jim Carss on 14/10/2009 12:03:21

[Trevor Meakin]

Hi Jim ,

 

Thanks for the advice , I will certainly give the alternative wing a shot ...

I am away for two weeks after tomorrow , so building is on hold ,

Who knows , when i get back I may have mail waiting for me from Ben Buckle Models ..

Won't be holding my breath ...

 

Cheers

 

Trev.

[Conrad Fox]

Hi Trevor,

 

Just noticed your comment on the basla stock included in your Ben Buckle kit. My Super Scorpion squared stock was not square and I had to replace it. Even some of the wing trailing edges were way off and had to be cut again!.

 

There is no denying that these kits build into lovely models, but at times, you feel like you are scratch building. My winter project is going to be a BB Falcon, so I am expecting more of the same. It's a good job we know how to bash balsa.

 

Conrad.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Capt Kremen]

If you're interested there's a fair video of a 'Mini Super' on YouTube at:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyXsHTenqoI

 

I've got a BB 'Mini Super' kit and am about to commence 'balsa bashing'.

(Mine will be electric though gave up the smellies years ago!!!)

 

Previous BB Kit experience would suggest Colin Buckle's cutters need more regular attention to 'sharpening' and 're-aligning' but they are one of the few vintage/old time model kit outfits still trading.

[Trevor Meakin]

Well Folks , ,

 

I am back of my Hols and guess what ....

 

NO Email from Ben Buckle , ah well , at least we know what to expect now ..

 

Thanks for the youtube link Capt ,

It looks good in the air , but think he needs to look at his engine , took a while to start . 

 

Eric , let me know how you go with your BB kit ....

 

Cheers

 

Trev.

[Trevor Meakin]

Irs been an absolute age since I made an input to this thread , In Honesty other things took over the past several Months , and I only managed to get the actual Wings finished , I opted for , build as plan  ,woith view to building a second pair at a later date .

 

With the wings finishe it is now onto the Fusalage , and this is fairly well under way , I must start to take photos ..

 

One thing that has now come to light , whish has thrown me in an all new direction ..

 

During my Non Mini Super period , I did knock up a quick Multuiplex Fox , and did an Electric Conversion to it ( My First experience at Electyric ) She flys like a dream , and is great to have in the back of that car whenever I am on my travels ..

 

Thing is,  I have now met a group of Hobbyists who are just undergoing a new club , with the proviso its Electric Only ..

 

This has set me thinking , The Fus is not tha tadvanced to do an Electric Conversion ,  I am being infromed that with todays available motors and power pack that it would be easy peasy ..thats o.k. coming from a seasoned Lecky fan ..

 

Has anyone undergone , or know anyone else that has undergone a Mini Super Electric Conversion ?? if So would love to hear from you ....

 

p..s Gave up on Ben Buckle replying , so opted for the easy option , just buy whats missing and get on with it ..

 

Cheers

 

Trev.

[Tim Mackey]

  Something like this?

[Capt Kremen]

Trevor,

 

Started on mine but with little 'spare' time to fathom out and correct the shortcomings of the kit as it comes out of the box, I moved to more accurate and quick(er) build projects.

I have an e-flite motor earmarked for my 'Mini-Super' running a reasonable size prop at lower rpm. I will 'get-round-toowit' sometime as I know it will be a great little plane.

 

Ben Buckle kits do not seem to have moved with the times alas but if you like a challenge!

[kc]

The Mini Super was published as free plan in Aviation Modeller International  November 1996 and the plan is still avail from them   plan No 128   price £11.50

This is the original Boddington taildragger version before Keil Kraft changed it to a trike.

 

So you have a choice of kit or plans.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

The motor/ESC recommened by Timbo should be just fine. I built a Mini Super for electric a year or so ago & it flies very nicely on 250watts max.....trundles around on about half power but I wanted a bit more power available because I use it as a camera plane & the extra urge gets it out of tight spaces!!!

 

kc asked about the dimensions of my ailerons. Unlike Jim I made both the flaps & the ailerons the same size. I used standard TE stock (1 1/2" x 1/2") & added a false TE (1/4" thick) & reduced the length of the ribs to suit thus keeping the overall chord the same as standard. My ailerons are 220mm long & the flaps 145mm...this leaves a short fixed TE section between the two. The size isn't critical....I made mine this size because it looked about right!!

 

The biggest mistake I made  was leaving the dihedral as per the plan....it turns better on rudder than ailerons & in fact I have mixed a bit of rudder in with the ailerons & this helps her turn much better. If building another one I would reduce the dihedral right down....maybe only 1/2" under each tip....

 

I used 9g servos through out & with individual servos for eachflp & aileron that gives 6 servos in all...if you go down this route then consider using a seperate power supply rather than relying on the BEC on the ESC...6 servos might be a bit much for your ESC.

 

I use a 2200mAh battery which gives 10-12 minutes of relaxed flying. The battery needs to go up front & around the F2 point.....when I dry assembled mineI was convinced it would need the battery just behind the cofg so cut a lovely battery tray & an access hatch in the side of the fuselage....in the event the battery had to go up front thus making my original battery tray/hatch totally redundant !!!

 

I mounted my motor on a front former that attaches to the orginal engine mounting beams....if I was building another I would either move F1 forward (& resize it to suit) or add an extra former at a suitable point to a"reverse mount" the motor to. I would consider leaving the beech engine mounting beams in place too as they contribute hugely to the strength of the front end......if you do get rid of them then I would suggest the use of ply doublers around the front sheeted section (ie right back to the mid cabin point) 

 

What else...oh yes cooling....make sure you can get some cooling airflow into the battery/ESC area & then out again....!! My battery & ESC live in the "cabin" area & I haven't got enough airflow into & out of this area so things get a little too warm...not hot exactly but warmer than they should. Fixing this with some extra airholes & a suitable exit is on my "to do list"....

 

On the whole it was a pretty easy conversion & well worth doing...mine always attracts some attention at the field....

[kc]

Thanks for the info on the ailerons Steve.   Electric seems the thing for this type of model nowadays.

What is the consensus of opinion.......are ailerons worthwhile on this model or is it better to use rudder / elev only?  ( Jim said it goes " just as well " )

[julian]

The motor & ESC that Tim has linked to is what is in my Mini Super and it has more than enough power.I have a couple of 2200mAH which give 10 mins +.

I built mine from a Ben Buckle kit and it flies fine on rudder and elevator only.I've thought of building an aileron wing.

The only thing that i changed was converting to a tail dragger as opposed to the trycycle undercarriage supplied,this was to save weight because it was powered with a speed 600 ,gearbox and ni-cad batteries-how things have changed...

I do remember that the quantity of strip wood supplied was insufficient and the supplied cut parts didn't fit those shown on the plan but i just altered them.

A friend of mine is currently building their Super Sixty and has the same problems so nothing has changed which is shame because there are a few Ben Buckle kits that are on my to do list.

Maybe the plans need a CAD update with laser cut parts,electric coversions etc.I have autocad and a HP Plotter in my workshop....just kidding

[Jimbo565]

KC

 

The Flap /aileron wing is much more fun,the ailerons work well but  I should have made them as wide as the flaps to make them  more responsive.

With the ailerons as they are it perfoms just like a trainer,in a breexe with flaps down it can hover.

 

Mine is OS 15 powered and she goes well .

 

Bit of a handfull on take off due to the tiny rudder but its all good fun.

 

JIm

[kc]

It is worth saying that Ben Buckle sell just the plans if you dont want a kit.  The Mini Super plan from them is about half the price of the David Boddington / Aviation Modeller International plan of the Mini Super,

BenBuckle also sell plans for Junior Sixty and another for Junior Sixty Electric.  Also a one and a half times version called Majestic Major 88 inchspan . Kits too.

 

David Boddington also designed a Micro Super and a Maxi Super75 inch ( one and a quarter times Junior Sixty )

[Trevor Meakin]

Well folks , once again I am indebted to the amount of information that I get from this forum .

The Motor/ESC setup as on the Link from Jimbo , does seem to be the way to go , I must say my first thouhts were ' is it a bit overkill , but having read other postee's comments then I think it is the one ..

 

Thanks for the tips about Cooling , being a Lecky Newby ,I must admit I had not thought about providing coolong to ESC ..

I have also been doing a bit of reading up on Motors and the terminolgy .

The Kv is the one that took my interest , Like many other novices , I thought it was a ref to Voltage , but sense told me that Kilo coukd possibly not be right ..the Little ' v ' does go un-noticed at first glance ...

I now know its ascociated with RPM , not wanting to go into too much detail , as this will clearly go way over my head , but the question I pose is .... Ready Folks .

 

On a Model such as the Mini Super , a basic trainer/sunday fun plane , what is better , a motor with a slower rpm or a faster rpm ..??

I have seen same wattage motors but with differant Kv  , does the slower one have more torque , and thus will throw a larger prop around ???

Sorry for all these questions , but if Electric is the way forward , and I certainly have 90% convinced myself this is the way my Mini will go , the nI want to learn as much as I can so I have a good understanding of whats actually going on ....

 

Once Again , over to you wonderful people out there ......

 

Next thing is I am going to see how I post photo's on here ..

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Thats interesting Julian...,my Mini Super plan was for a taildragger & I converted mine to a trike undercart!!!!

 

KC...its an interesting point....Like Jim I added ailerons & flaps for fun & because I could....

 

As I left the dihedral standard I can't really comment on how it would fly with a flatter wing....certainly he ailerons on mine are pretty tame in their response & rudder has a far greater effect....

 

The thing to remember is that ailerons on a flat wing should give you much better control in the roll axis....with rudder you simply yaw the model & wait for the dihedral to turn it.....

 

Plus it depends on what you want...a true MiniSuper is a vintage model with Rudder & Elevator....if you're an inveterate fiddler like me (& I suspect Jim!!) then have some fun, fit ailerons/flaps & enjoy......or even build two wings....standard & a flat one with ailerons & decide which you like best!!!

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Trevor, generally  bigger prop turning slower is most efficient as it shift the most air but Kv, prop size & model type are all related...you wouldn't want a huge, slow turning prop on a pylon racer....similarly a 5x5 prop spinning at 25,000 rpm isn't really going to drag a large model around very well. I recall writing a comparison between car & bike engines to offer an analagy about low & high Kv motors...I'll see if I can find it....

 

The motor in my Mini Super is around 1000 Kv (rpm per volt) & it turns an 8x6 very nicely on a 3S Lipo....personally I tend to stick around the 1000-1100Kv mark with my motors because it suits a 3S battery & the type of models I fly......

 

Also consider ground clearance...I couldn't go above a 9" prop without the 'Super becoming a lawnmower!!!

[Tim Mackey]

That Jimbo eh

Steve has it summed up nicely Trevor, and you may find this useful too ?