Ed Kershaw Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 In trying to choose an engine for this project, my criteria are, (probably in priority order): 1. Sufficient power 2. Reliability and engine quality 3. Noise quality (i.e. long stroke/slow turning 4 stroke??) Also, I'm prepared to shovel a bit of money at it (unusually for me!) It seems to me that the OS IL300 is simply to big and heavy. Therefore, it is a straight choice between the Laser150 and OS120. (Or low kV electric - possibly not as daft as it sounds as you only get the prop noise and not the garden strimmer/chainsaw engine effect). Are there any other sensible choices I'm overlooking? Many thanks for any responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Hi Ed Several years ago, I shovelled a bit of money at a laser 150 I have never regretted it, It's a beautiful thing in it's own right, and has never missed a beat. Power is adequate for a 1/4 scale WW1 job Reliability is second to none I love the noise, and a wee drop of castor in the fuel, gives a smell second to none ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Ernie Don't you mean Castrol R ? (nostalgia again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Hi Myron, I think so, but oh it's better than chanel no5 ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Ed, I have the flair 1/4 scale moth with OS 120fs up front,the power is adequate for stooging around but I think the 150 would be the way to go, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Kershaw Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Many thanks for the comments, gents. It really does seem that the choice is OS120 or Laser150. That's it. Personally, I think that, of the two, the Laser is the way to go as it is lighter, more powerful and, in my opinion, sounds better. It seems that Mick Reeves ONLY uses Lasers, according to his website. I have to say, I am surprised that there are no other serious contenders to power 1/4 scale bipes. I'll get the shovel out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy watson Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Can I ask why you are not considering a petrol engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Kershaw Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 No reason at all. That was really the point of the original question - what other options could I be considering? So long as it meets the critiera, i.e. quality, reliability and sounds more like an aeroplane than a chainsaw, any options are good. Can you let me know what the petrol options are, please? I guess it would need to be 4 stroke. Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Richards Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Have a look at the Saito range of 4 stroke petrol engines here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy watson Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I wouldn't like to say- I have no experience of expensive engines- petrol or otherwise! My stuka needs a 1.20 4 stroke, and that is overpowered. If I was going any bigger at all I would have looked first at petrol. The Saito ones seem to have made an excellent impact, but I would suggest the "brand name" engines all have a lot of fans and very few detractors. It's very difficult to buy based on sound, but I perfectly understand why you are trying to. Maybe running through youtube or something might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi Ed, I am a big fan of Lasers....If you look at results for top level scale competitions, you'll see lasers figure all the time. they are really top class products. Also, I see that there are now petrol conversion kits available. For example from the excellent Just Engines I wonder what a petrol laser might be like ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy watson Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I have heard some poor reports of glow engines converted to petrol/spark ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hi Andy, I'd like to know a bit more about that ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Kershaw Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Interesting idea - a petrol Laser. I'll see if I can contact Neil Tidey and see what he thinks and post back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy watson Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Ernie, just a general impression I have picked up from reading the various forums. As I said above, these engines are a way above my pay grade at the moment! People seem to prefer keeping with the original engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Webster Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I have the Flair Tiger Moth and powered it with the earlier version of the Laser 150. It has never been out of the Moth and powers it beautifully. It runs really well inside the cowl and the only overheating I've had was on a hot day this summer and it cut for the second time in about 8 years. The first cut was caused by the round tank rotating and cutting off the fuel. Square tank then fitted after taking my dremel to the formers. I have the later versions of the same engine in a 1/4 scale Jungmeister and also in a Mick Reeves 1/6 scale Spitfire. Great engines. I have been using Model Technics Laser Mix straight fuel for about the last 5 years, but after reading the 25th anniversary interview with Neil Tidey, I'm thinking of switching to a synthetic with nitro. Bob W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_H Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 My next build will be the Flair Tiger Moth with an E-Flite 160 and 2 5S LiPo's - 19" wooden Bolly prop. I have a Hangar 9 1/4 scale Cub that works quite nicely with the E-Flite 110 and am building the Seagull Mew Gull to take this motor. Given all the variables I don't anticipate any probs powering the Flair Tiger with the E-Flite 160. Ask me this time next year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Kershaw Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Many thanks to all for the comments. An update on where I've got to with this: I spoke to Geoff at Laser engines who informed me that they actually make a Laser 180 that is pretty much ideal for 1/4 scale Moths - long stroke, torquey, not lightly built at 1200g, and reliable. He advised strongly against petrol conversions to Lasers. They have never tried it and don't intend to. I asked why the 180 is not advertised on their website and was told that as they sell all they can make, they don't need to advertise it! The Saito FG36 petrol is the other option (thanks for the steer, Bruce). It is quite heavy, all up (1700g+), and quite expensive - more than twice the price of the Laser. There are various forum discussions about problems with lubrication on these - I don't know if this is sorted out yet. Of the two, this seems the higher risk option, although less smokey and cleaner (probably) if all goes well. I think the Laser 180 is the way to go.... Arte and Marty, your electric set-up sounds impressive. That will deliver about 2kW at the prop - about 2.7hp. I should imagine you'll be able to stand your Moth on its tail at 130 W/lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_H Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hmmmm..... 7 kilos or 14 1/2 lbs AUW - now THAT will be a challenge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Ed, You need all the weight you can get up front,I have just over 1lb. of lead up front to get c/g correct. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Channon Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hi all, what about the SC 180 four stroke? a really nice engine, sounds nice and above all reliable. Regards as always Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Kershaw Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Many thanks again to all for the suggestions and comments. Is 14/15 lbs a lot to expect from the Flair TM? I was hoping that would be achievable with our Hutson version. Light aeroplane do fly so much better. I remember I did once see the Flair scale sprung u/c assy for one. Lovely piece of hardware, but I remember thinking it seemed quite heavy. Maybe I'll get a shock when ours gets assembled and weighed. Well, the fuz and flying surfaces are coming along well on our Hutson version and it's time to bolt some metalwork in the front. We made the decision this weekend to go for the Laser 180, so that'll be on order tomorrow. The build has been quite interesting so far, with various kit related anomalies and frustrations, but I'll write something about that in another section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_H Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Aussie Steve Barker has just finished his Flair Tiger and added a heap of detail and it came out at 9 kg or just under 20 lbs. I wont be adding as much scale detail as Steve has and I have decided to make my full length pilot removable and fit a false floor and pilot bust for flying. I am hoping on 8 kg or 18 lbs tops and that includes two 5S 5 Amp LiPo batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 This is my Flair Tiggy over 15yrs old,just re-engined with SC180fs which has yet to be tested. I'm thinking the electric version will need a fair amount of church roof up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_H Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thanks Jim, Very nice! I'm hoping that church roof will be mostly battery, I was wanting to use the fuel tank location however I am leaning more towards forwards of the firewall. The E-Flite 160 weighs in at 23 oz or 650 grams and the batteries at 22 oz or 630 grams each, for a total of 67 oz or 1910 grams. If I need to I should get most of that forward of the firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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