Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator

Hello and welcome to the 2019 Mass Build!!! So, what's this all about then? Some of you will have done the Mass Build before, it dates back on here to 2010/11, but some of you will be new to this, so let me explain. Our hobby has many facets but the two main ones are obviously flying and building models. The flying bit we usually manage OK but for many building, in the traditional sense, is a bit of a closed book. They are unsure where to start and maybe concerned about making a pig's ear of it! Now you might say "with all these fantastic ARTF's around why would I want to build models the traditional way?" Good question! There are three reasons really: 1. Nothing, believe me nothing, can compare to the satisfaction of that first successful flight with a model that started life in your hands as just some planks and sticks of wood. It's a big thrill. And if you don't build you're missing out on that, which is a pity. 2. If you can build then your models will be truly individual. You can modify the design, you can add features. You choose the colour scheme and everything about the model. And the skills you learn will even help with your ARTF jobs as well. Repairs you might not have undertaken before become straight forward, conversions and adaptions of ARTF's to personalise them become possible. 3. It's just great fun! Simple as that. OK, so how are you going to dip your toe in the water and do your first trad build? That's where the Mass Build comes in! How this works is we select a suitable model, individual enough to be interesting, yet at the same time not too complex to build. We then build it, together, over a set period, all blogging our progress as we go. There will be a mixture of experienced builders and new builders taking part. The newbies follow along using the blogs of the experienced builders as a guide. And of course it goes without saying that they can ask questions and seek guidance directly - just by posting. This format has worked very successfully in previous years with many folks successfully completing their first traditional build. So what are the details? At present the mod team, lead by Graham, are searching the catalogues for a suitably exciting model. Something that has all the elements of a trad build and expansion potential for the more experienced. It has to be aerobatic enough to be interesting fly, because we recognise that people may be new to building but they are not necessarily new to flying! We hope to have a model lined up, complete with a laser cut wood pack etc. for those that want that, by the later part of this year. We'll then give out all the details here. That will give you plenty of time to get ready for the build itself which will start on 1st March 2019. While of course you are free to start when you wish in reality, we would ask you do not blog builds before that date. Why? Well a big part of the fun here is the whole "doing it together" thing - we are sharing an activity, solving the same problems side-by-side. If some go off at different times it really undermines the fun and the quality of the experience for others. So from 1st March 2019 we all break out the balsa, clear the building board (or get a building board if we are very new to this!) and get building. You have lots of time because we are going to have the official project end at the RCM&E Fly-in at Buckminister on 13th-15th Sept. 2019 where we will have a Mass Fly-in of hopefully loads of Mass Build models!! Now obviously you don't have to attend the fly-in to take part - the build is the thing - but we really do hope as many as possible will join us at Buckminister as it will be a great way to celebrate everyone's achievement. So, there we have it. We do hope you will join in. Whether you are experienced, intermediate or completely new to building we will trying hard to make this Mass Build "something for you" - let's all have a lot fun building and flying a model together! Watch this space for updates and further info. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 24/09/2018 03:28:44

Wow! Nice, but 80 euros?! BEB

Oh - I like that! Very different. It'll be interesting to hear about that in action. Re plagarism: well to the problems the conversion offers there is one obvious solution - we're both experienced modellers, it's kind of inevitable that we'll independently end up in the same place with minor variations. One thing that is interesting is how on the classic build the lower fuselage curves up at the front; on the ARTF its simply a straight incline - slope but no curve. That was obviously done to simplify manufacture, but it does lose some of the grace of the profile of the original. BEB

"Currently" is not a pun - "current" would have been. Anyway - the reason I'm gently pulling your leg is that some time ago we decided on this forum not to make disparging remarks about the power sources choosen by others - because it just leads to pointless argument. So let's refrain fronm it and instead enjoy celebrate what each of us chooses. BEB

Just for your information kc, most universities start the spring term in the fist week in Jan - so your concept of them enjoying long holidays is something of a myth I'm afraid. I understand your reason but unless you are personally prepared to run this for 9-10 months of every year I think we'll move on. BEB

Posted by Paul james 8 on 22/09/2018 16:00:14: It currently has one of those awful electric motor things in the front (no pun intended). Or indeed achieved. "pun1 pʌn/ noun noun: pun; plural noun: puns 1. a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word or the fact that there are words which sound alike but have different meanings." BEB

Well, some good responses there. Some things I'd agree with, some less so! Let's just clarify a few points though. 1. Lots of folks are talking about "but a trainer won't be interesting to experienced builders". Who mentioned trainer? I don't think any of the models ever selected have been trainers or even close! The Tucano wasn't a trainer, nor the Dawn Flyer, or the Pushy Cat etc., etc. The target is novice builders - they are not necessarily novice pilots! So I agree with Trevor's point above. 2. CNC kit availability. Agreed a big plus. But just because a model doesn't have one shouldn't disbar it - I'm confident Sarik for example would be happy to create one if they saw there was a market - and can convince them of that. 3. In many of the best MB's we have encouraged the experienced builders to have their fun by adding to the basic design - doing retracting uncarts or adding flaps etc. This creates a challenge for them and gives the new builders an insight into how to do that sort of thing, all whilst still building the basic model. 4. The idea of a design brief type event is attractive - but I think it would scare the novice builders off - if they haven't built a model from planks of wood they certainly won't have designed one! 5. Talk of start dates pre-Jan just fill me with despair! If we have the RCM&E fly-in at Buckminister in Sept as te end-point, then start dates as late as April become possible. 6. Point about over-discussing this is a good one (he says as point 6 in a list of discussions!). Maybe the answer is we (the mods) just select a model and start/end date, let folks know and either you're in or you're out, your choice. If we did that we would probably propose: start 1st April, end at RCM&E fly-in 13-15th Sept; announce the model end of Jan - beginning of Feb maybe - so folks have time to decide whether to join in or not and if so order a CNC kit etc. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 22/09/2018 15:37:41

Over on the "RCM&E - the Inside Story" thread the topic of if there would be a Mass Build in 2019 came up and it was noted that the Mass Build seems to have lost its way a bit and declined in recent years. Let me just briefly review the history of the Mass Build because I think there is an explanation for what has happened; I think the reason the Mass Build has tailed off some what in recent years is that it was effectively "killed off" by over enthusiasm! I was one of the people responsible for setting up the very first Mass Build back in 2010/11. The idea came from something Stephen Grigg used to do, each year he set himself the challenge of building a model, from start to finish, in one day - Christmas Day! I got to thinking we could expand this idea and do something with it. I was keen to introduce new people to building from plans, woodpacks and kits etc. So the idea was born, we would select a model, either a kit or plan but not an ARTF, a wide group of modellers would build it simultaneously, blogging as they went. The experienced modellers acting as "guides and examples" for the new builders. The build started in about February/March or so and the subject was a model called "The Webbit" - a sort of small WOT4 clone. It was very successful - the build more so than the Webbit! We decided to do it again. This time we designed it so that the model was selected late in the year for a building start at the beginning of the following year, catching the end of the building season and giving folks plenty of time to finish it before the Greenacres June fly-in. Again very successful, many people took part. The next year it was the Tucano that we all built - again excellent, some splendid models were built of Nigel Hawes design. The year after was, in my view, when the idea started to fall apart! There was a lot of pressure for more than one model as the subject and we ended up with 3 Mass Builds. This happened because significant numbers of experienced builders increasingly took the view "I'm not going to play unless we play with my ball". Which kind of undermines the idea really! I believe this 3 subject Mass Build was a mistake. The Mass Build works when it is a concentrated, focussed and shared activity, the more you dissipate it the more you lose the point. After that things got worse! What happened was we were placed under increasing pressure to start earlier and earlier in the year. Just days after Greenacres in June folks were posting saying "let's start the next Mass Build now"! They wanted model selection in August and actual builds starting in Sept. We advised against this because it's very hard to keep the momentum and focus going for so long, it just dissipates, and as I've said when you lose the focus with the Mass Build you lose the point. For one year we held out and insisted on a Jan 1 start. The next year people's enthusiasm got the better of them, they were unilaterally breaking ranks, organising things and starting building in Sept. At that point the mods just "sat back" and left them to it! Interest definitely declined, subjects were selected that were too difficult for beginner builders, te activity was too spread out in time and started to just meander rather than have the energy and focus it used to have. And that is how we have ended up where we are! So, what to do? Well, if folks want to continue in the current smaller scale more spread out format, that's fine but someone will need to step forward to administrate it. Alternatively if you want a return to a more structured and concentrated event (nominations in early Oct, shortlisting at the end of the month and final decision, on a single subject, in November for a 1st Jan start to the build that will have a many completions by March or April), we are happy to provide that. But we can't, and won't, run the event successfully over 9 months and multiple types. Let us know what you want to do, we really don't mind either way, we are happy to provide a framework for this and support it - but only as a focussed activity returning to its roots, aimed at encouraging building for first timers BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 22/09/2018 11:25:11

Going wildly off topic I too am a "breakfast man" - best meal of the day! Though personally I'm a Shredded Wheat in hot milk type myself! Followed of course by toast with Frank Cooper's Vintage Oxford Marmalade. BEB

Beautiful workmanship Chris, quite outstanding. When you see a model like that it almost seems a shame to cover it! BEB

Hi Bob, How's things in Kansas? Regarding charging your LiFe batterries: yes you can charge at 2C - generally I wouldn't do so though. I doubt that it makes a lot of difference but I believe in charging only at 1C. Note though, you will of course need to use a LIpo sytle charger with a LiFe setting. BEB

Nice one Percy. I used to fix batteries with velcro on the bottom but it's sometimes very difficult to get the battery out - and occasionally completely impossible! The battery I'll use here is, as you all know, a 6s 5000mAh, big chunk of weight. Any velcro strong enough to hold that down just by contact is not going to be easy to part! As we shall see, while my hatch allows me to get my fingers in there, to position a battery and lift it out, I can't get my hand in there, so I can't exert much grip. If we had velcro on the bottom I'd never get it out! OK, so I too have been playing battery trays/chutes today. Here is what I made: I don't know about you but, though I say so myself, that is a slight improvement on the "quarter inch plank of hairy balsa" it replaces! It's a basic tray, non-slip matting on the base and fat Velcro strip to hold the battery to the matting - that I can reach to undo as it isn't underneath! There is "back stop" with a bit of foam just to make the battery comfy! The triangular pieces and the block beneath it are just braces - the battery weighs over 2lb this needs to be reasonably tough and strong, but light. Most of the material is 2mm ply with a bit of soft balsa block thrown in. Here is the view from below: If you look carefully those spots on the right-hand side are blood! My blood to be precise! I managed to cut myself removing a broken scalpel blade from the handle - idiot! Well, it's said that they fly better if you bleed on them - its always worked for me in the past! So this is the battery in place, it can't go all the way to the front of the tray - much as I'd like it to - as if its there it will poke out of the hatch! And here is the tray fixed into the model. It is supported by a piece of triangular stock glued to the firewall at the front and a block glued to the ply former at the rear: Last but not least here are two shots of the battery in the model, on the tray, having been inserted and removed via the hatch: So, that's probably the single most important and difficult task done. It may seem, if you're new to electric conversions, that we faffed about a lot dithering about where to put the battery. But this is vital decision, you have to consider it very carefully. I'd have loved to have put the battery into the cowl, but I believe that only Nigel's proposed solution could do that (battery lying down poking through the firewall). But while I have done similar I also know that is an immense about of work - and I can't justify that for what is in the end a low cost winter hack. There is still more to do: we need to re-install the motor and the speed controller. Then we need to patch up the holes and repair the covering. We need to do the aileron servos and push rods. We can then have a balance up and see how we stand - or not as the case may be. If all is well we install the radio gear and go flying - if not we return to the drawing board! BEB

Hi Glen, Thanks for that suggestion, I've done exactly that in a Sea Fury,... But its not possible here because the cowl isn't tall enough for the battery,... So that image is with the cowl off and you can see there is no way the cowl would fit over that battery. I also doubt I could get the stand-offs far enough apart. It really is surprising how much the WOT4 tapers at the front end. The main fuse is deep - but the front/firewall is very shallow. BEB

Very nice Ron. Couple of quick points to help you; first try and make sure your photos are the right way up before you post them! We are all getting nech ache trying to view it from the side! Secondly, when creating a new thread you will find a drop down box that lists the many categories on the forum, then you can select an approriate one! At the moment everything you do is going in the 3D printing category by default - somehow I doubt you 3D printed that beautiful locomotive! BEB PS If you need any help just PM me. PPS I have already moved your threads so far to more appropriate catagories so you don't have to worry about them.

I'm sorry to hear that Simon. I flew once at the Shropshire club as a guest many years ago, my memories are of a friendly club on a nice site. I hope you suceed in finding somewhere new. BEB

For what it's worth (!) I'm getting no problems. The ISP is BT, both Chrome and Explorer work OK and both PC (Windows Vista) and phone (Android V) are fine. I can get the site in all combinations. So, er,...no issues here at least! BEB

Hi Kester, I mounted the transducer in the fuselage - on the side. I used just one for that aircraft and found it was fine. You probably already know this, if so I apologise for repeating it, but the MrRC stuff works differently from most other sound systems. They are tranducers, not loudspeakers, so basically they are resonantors or shakers. Basically they work by being fixed to the wall of a big "boomy" box! They shake the wall of the box, that shakes the air inside the box and out it comes as sound. So to work best they need to be in a big hollow box! Its exactly the same as how a violin works. The noise from just the string is tiny - but the vibration of the string (pssing through the bridge) transmits to the upper panel of the body - which is basically a big hollow box. Its the vibration of the air in that box that we hear. So all this tells us that sticking the transducers to solid objects, or very small hollow boxes, won't work as well as sticking it to the biggest box we have - ie the fuselage! One issue is: the system works fine in foam models, but obviously foam, by its nature, is rather softer and a bit absorbant of both the vibration and the resulting sound. It works best of all in a wooden box - then it really is loud! But don't get me wrong, even in a floam model its loud enough! Hope this helps, again apologies if you had already sussed all of that but I thought it might be useful just to review it. BEB