Barnstormer 52

Ben The thing also to remember is that Strimmer Cord is not 'tested' and 'may' have manufacturing faults. If the strimmer cord breaks it is not an issue for a strimmer, it is for your model. Abu (Swedish fishing tackle manufacturer) used to have a fishing trace (line) called TEST. It was guaranteed not to break below the quoted strength. When Yachting, I hated chain, one weak link and that's it! But you had to use it for anchor rodes, but I never really slept easy laying on the anchor overnight. With rope you can visually check it. I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs. A 50cc class model must be a big investment, aren't the BMFA scruteneering heavy models, get yourself some quality line and ferrules for your closed loop, even the best available will be chicken feed compared to the cost of your model (and the potential for an accident) There are perhaps some places you can risk saving money on. I wouldn't risk it on the controls, go for the best. Regards Geoff

Hi I don't know but I'm just thinking about it logically. I have used fishing wire for RC model closed loop systems. You can get coated braided wire, not sure what the coating is but it is some kind of plastic or nylon. It'll be graded in per pound/kilo breaking strain. From yachting I know that tying a knot in rope weakens it by about 30%, so I would guess crimps and the sharp radius bends that you'll put in it might do roughly the same. What sort of torque do your servos have? How many pounds can it pull? Double that and I would think you would be safe. Think about it this way. For say the rudder, If you had the model held so the nose was pointing at the floor - while holding the control horn on one side against any load that you hung on wire on the horn on the other side, how much weight would you dare to hang on it? I'm guessing you wouldn't hang 30lbs on it, so 30lb should be strong enough. I don't think you'll get steel fishing braid much lighter than that. I would think that 30lb would pull the servo out of the model. The heavier you go with steel braid, the larger radius it'll need to bend, But take a look at 50lbs class wire braid, see how flexible it is I have no experience of 50cc class models though. Best regards Geoff

Posted by kc on 27/02/2014 17:37:05: Well I wondered if that's why you were looking into the incidence. I would expect the bolts to compress the balsa and maybe not the same front and rear therefore changing the incidence or maybe changing it from flight to flight. Danny's photo shows how he neatly cut around the alloy and removed the balsa. Hi I have done this both ways in the past. I think it's better to cut the balsa sheet away. You can cut an X in the covering and iron it down. The edges of the 1/16" sheet help when locating the wing and putting the bolts in. If you leave the 1/16" sheet, it does compress and you get saggy covering. Regards Geoff

Posted by Barnstormer 52 on 27/02/2014 18:01:27: Can't you go to a 63? Sorry - I remember now - it was the size of the car. Geoff

kc - (typing with1 hand had an op today) It did - and I am sure I drew a line on the plan or judged it from the 72" plans. Powered by an OS 15 (circa 1966) it was a bit marginal on power till I found the right prop. Mind you the RC gear was heavy. I did shorten and pinch the tail together to get a full depth Rudder. I have a 63" OS FS 40 with Ailerons, but I didn't follow the plan here with the big barn door ones, as I did on a 72" many years ago, I cut them from the finished wing with a band saw for 7 wing rib bays and made them 2" x 21.5". Servos in the wing ribs, as per Andy Greens 72" Build. With hindsight they could have been less bays I think and I would have had space for flaps. With comparatively heavy RC gear (1980) the 52" needed to fly quite fast. As you go up the wing spans, needless to say the characteristics get better. The 57" will be novel, Can't you go to a 63? Regards Geoff

Hi 25" span 5 1/2" at the centre line excluding elevator 4" at the tip ex elevator the elevator is 1 7/8" at the rudder. hope that makes sense. I flew several 52" versions (due to pilot error) I increased the size if the rudder by altering the curve, it was a bit ineffective at slow speeds. Regards Geoff

Purely as a discussion now. some one else with more aerodynamic knowledge than me, please chip in. Different pitch and diameter, - plus different rpm. "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" Surely the thrust to overcome the drag in order to fly an airframe is only going to come from the resistance against the blades of the prop, and therefore regardless of pitch or diameter, a certain amount of air has to be pushed backwards. and the force required to do that is going to be the same? Regards Geoff

Not casting any aspersions Does the propeller know what motive force is driving it around diesel - electric-glow Regards Geoff

Hi I have plans for 52", a plan out of 63" kit, and 2 sheet plan for 72" and the 1 sheet plan from a 72" kit. None of these have a doubler aft of the rear cockpit bulkhead I'm afraid. I have never had a breakage in that area but it often struck me as a weak point. Maybe the Bi-Stormer has it due to the cut out for the lower wing? I you post a picture of the plan maybe someone could interpret? Regards Geoff

KC I wouldn't do it, for me one of the endearing features of this model is the clean uninterrupted wing that produces gentle flight performance. I don't like the 2 piece wing idea either. The Bi-Stormer comparison I'm not sure really works as obviously you have the 2 wings so it can stand a little less span. Visually it might stand one less bay, but I seem to remember in an age old Sport & Scale column DB saying he added an extra bay to one of the bigger marks, but I can't remember why. Won't you be able to fit it in diagonally? Geoff

HI I only picked up on the thread a couple of days ago, to be honest I tend to dip in and out of the hobby a bit. I checked back to see what was happening for the mass build and Fly In at Greenacres, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Barnstormers were going to be involved. I must have built around 8, in various sizes over the years, and have never grown tired of the design. So I was kind of thinking I must make it up to Walsall in June. The original 52", circa 1977, which I learned to fly on, was 3 Channel, powered by a 1966 OS15, it was very marginal on power until, by experimentation, I found a prop that changed everything. I have built 63"and 72" versions. 63" with and without ailerons powered by an OS FS40, and 72" versions guided by 3 ch with a 2 stroke OS 40, and with Ailerons and flaps with an OS60. On the building board at the moment I have a new 72" which will either get and OS FS70 or OS FS60, plus a 36" that was scaled from the 72" plan which is destined for electric. Does any one estimate how many of the design might be at Greenacres? Regards Geoff

I am sure that somewhere I have an issue of RCM&E with a stunning scale model of this type. I think it was in the late 70's early 80's. I'm going to have a dig through the archive. I have always liked the geeky look of this. Geoff

Gallery Camera Operator for Litho Printers circa 1969. plus some film planning and platemaking.   Estimator   Production Control   More Estimating   Programmer (dBase II and Visual FoxPro)   Customer Services (Production really) Web Offset   1st flying model - Keil Kraft Pixie (aged about 8 or 9 circa 1960)   worst unfinished project 1/3rd Scale Pober Pixie   most models built David Boddingtons Barnstormer 3 x 52" (kept crashing it) 1 x 63" 2 x 72" - 1 with ailerons and flaps 14" for round the pole - scaled the plan 30" Park Flyer - scaled the plan   Current project - Ian Peacock - Bootlace 1 @ 52" and 1 @ 40" (electric)   How sad!  

Tony My brother had an SC 4 stroke and I seem to remember it ran OK.   My personal preference would always be an OS.   Geoff

Hi there I am not familiar with CAD, but in general good on PC's. I want to build a model with tapered semi symetrical wing section but am not keen on the block and sand method. Is it possible to somehow or other scan in the root and tip section and then get a CAD program to draw the other ribs? Regards Geoff

Marmite on toast washed down by Genuine Heinz Tomato soup is one of the best hangover cures!   [is this a slow news week?]

Marmite on toast washed down by Genuine Heinz Tomato soup is one of the best hangover cures!   [is this a slow news week?]

A friend of mine, whom I met while a rookie member of Elmridge Model Club, built the Grumman kit by Cambrian.   He powered it with an HB40 that was fitted with, what was quite revolutionary at the time, a Perry Pump.   The model flew well, but the engine refused to run reliably.   We must have spent eon's looking for the cause and never found it.   It used to take off like a scalded cat but the moment he throttled back a bit the HB cut.   I lost count of the dead stick landings, which kept the amusment level up.   Doug Robertson - if you are out there.   Geoff    

Any Fishing Tackle shop that does sea fishing gear.   You can get weights up to 2lb - maybe more.   How much weight does it need?

I wonder if anybody has finished one of these - I am not sure I believe the balance point in the destructions   Regards Geoff

David I am not an expert but.   It sounds as though it it was on or very near a stall.   Aileron at that point would be curtains.   More drag and I am guessing destroying lift on the other side, would at height probably induced a spin.   I thought the idea was to use rudder to pick the low wing up? Geoff

Park Flying - this is probably going to sound a bit naieve but   All things taken into cosideration such as: acting responsibly competency insurance etc.   What constitutes a Park Flyer? and What might you actually "get away with" or Would not be illegal?

Carl Before I saw these posts this evening, I ordered a slow stick - I can't wait !!   What camera did you have on the stick     Regards Geoff @import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);@import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

Simon I recently bought a Fret Saw from Axminster Tools - the advantage it has over the Titan one from Screwfix is the adaptor to take blades without the little pins in.   This allows you to saw either from the front or the sides have a look at Axminster's site.   I have a band saw as well - but they are different animals.   I was hoping to do wing ribs on the Fret Saw.   Regards Geoff

I know this sounds completely irelevant, but when youhave tried all the obvious, have you tried changing the plug. I might change the fuel as well to eliminate anything you can Geoff