"Ultimate" mistake

[Old John B]

Had the misfortune to buy this kit, with its shocking building manual. Finished it and it looks good BUT, it is going to take one and three quarter pound of lead to balance it at the given C of G. Have an Irvine 61 on the front. Anyone else found this? Seems an awful lot of weight to me.

[Bruce Richards]

JB, which Ultimate kit is it? Who makes it?

[ken anderson.]

hello jb--we need more info???????..............all that lead spell's  to my mind....let us know what we are talking about to help solve your prob....you may have to mucho weight in the tail area....

 

      ken anderson ne 1......

[Old John B]

Sorry didnt, say the mname of the kit . It's a Black horse kit. It has been built exactly as the book says nothing added or subtracted

[Bruce Richards]

I have a Top Gun Ultimate and that had a Saito 125a in the front and needed loads of lead. I have replaced the Saito with a 26cc petrol engine which is much heavier and it is stll tail heavy. My Son has the Seagull Ultimate with an OS 120fs in the from and this balances fine.

 

These models are not that much different in size to yours the seagull has a 1380mm wingspan and Top Gun 1400mm. It seems that the Ultimate is naturally tail heavy model.

Edited By Bruce Richards - Moderator on 05/05/2010 17:31:02

Edited By Bruce Richards - Moderator on 05/05/2010 17:31:32

[Rafman]

Hi JB,

 

I used to have the Goldberg version of the Ultimate fitted with an OS 61SX and a Tuned Pipe and that had a large lump of church roof up the front as well to get the balance right. I put it down to the Tuned pipe which ran through the fus almost to the tail, but it flew superbly. I sold it to my brother last year and he removed the OS 61 and replaced it with a 110 four stroke and guess what, it still needed the large lump of lead up front so bang went my theory on the tuned pipe. I guess that the basic design being a fairly short nose moment will always require some extra weight to get the balance correct.

 

Steve

[Old John B]

Hi all. Thanks for the info. It was nice to know that other people found that the lump of lead on the front was very large. On the strength of this I pressed on and ended up putting one and three quarter pounds of lesd  in the nose. Balanced it on the C of G and the total weight of plane was 9.5 lbs. The instructions say the weight should be 8.4 lbs, so it aint too bad. Will let you know what happens when it takes to the air! 

Thanks again from JB 

[Brian Cooper]

Hi JB,

This is weird. 

 

I have got a Blackhorse Ultimate.  It has got an ASP 120 F/S in the front and it hasn't got any extra weight in the front to balance it.   It's a superb aeroplane and is one of my firm favourites.

I hope yours performs as well as mine.

 

[Ken Lighten]

JB, you will probably find that the instructions are incorrect or confusing for the location of the C of G -  give Ripmax a call to confirm the correct position - they were very helpful when I did mine, the correct position should result in little or no ballast weight (at least mine did and it flew perfectly)

[Old John B]

Thanks Ken, yes, you are right the diagram given in the "Instructions" does lead to confusion, I read it incorrectly, it seemed to indicate that the C of G was at right angles to the join of the wing. The way its all written and set out is confusing. Anyway I will take your advice and give Ripmax a ring on Monday just to make sure that I have it right now. Once again thanks to all for your thoughts, they definitely made me think everything through.

[Bruce Richards]

Just finishing off my Top Gun Ultimate with 26cc petrol engine and I have added 200g of lead to get the C of  G to where it should be. I was talking to another club member who has the sme model and he has moved the elevator servos from the tail to the middle of the model to help get the C of G without load of lead.

 

How is yours going JB?

[Old John B]

Hi Bruce. Having checked with Ripmax and found exactly where the C of G was, I just added lead until we balanced nicely. Think that there maybe about sixteen ounces in there perhaps a little less.Took her flying today, about 15 mph wind and I wondered about the old Irvine 61 that's on the front. She flew a treat,perhaps the throws were a tiny bit much.  Very fast or very slow mattered little,  it just didn't want to come down. If they get some decent building instructions the kit and the finished model would take some beating. All the hassle and hair tearing were worth it in the end   JB

[Old John B]

Continuing the saga of the Blackhorse ultimate. Yes it looks nice and flies beautifully BUT,after five flights just getting used to its peculiarites, I thought let' s do some aerobatics.. so did a big loop using the throttle as is required and then a gentle roll, then came round and flew straight with the intention of doing a stall turn (After all tis an aerobatic machine and as yet nothing had been attempted that would test the average trainer!)It was moving in a straight line when there was a crack, the spectators shouted bring it in bring it in. I could see something fluttering round the tail area.Got her down safely in one piece and lo and behold the left hand tailplane had broken from the tip of the leading edge to the trailing edge at the fuselage. A diagonal split. Looks like poor workmanship and dodgy wood.   I am suprised that Ripmax sell something like this, I have the VQ hurricane, two in fact and they are absolutely splendid in every way. If I mend the Ultimate would I trust it to do aerobatics I dont think so. Is this kit fit for purpose ? NO it aint . I may as well say now that ten nuts and bolts were missing but the model shop gave me some to replace those that shoud have been there. Will keep you all informed on progress. JB

[Old John B]

Just spoken to Ripmax and they were most helpful and I think that the matter will be resolved. It is nice to think that a large firm like this listens to it's public.JB

[Alan Cantwell]

 ,  on an aerobatic model,  always do a simple brace on the tail,  bit of carbon rod, 4 bits of flattened tube,   solid as a rock,