Jamara Gee Bee

[Erfolg]

I have seen in RCM&E that a contributor (Pete Lowe) has built a Jarama Gee Bee R1 by Jarama.

 

I have seen adverts for the kit previously, also remember the kit being sold in the Far East unbranded, at a similar cost, plus P&P. I have seriously considered purchasing  the kit.

 

I have reservation, having a 36" Realistics Model Gee Bee, which I suspect is much lighter. I had always considered that 40" or  just +40" would be the ideal size for electric flight. This assumption is based on battery, motor ESC costs, relative to good performance.

 

Yet I have seen threads , containing videos which indicate the Jarama model flies well. Is this due to excellent skills, editing or is the model that good?

 

Still would like a 40ish span model having a plan by Haffke for the R1/2 which I think is about 60" which when looking at the plan is to big for my needs.

 

Has any body have personal experience of the Jarama kit, or a bigger Gee Bee about 40ish span?.

 

Erfolg   

[David Ashby - Moderator]

I think I can reassure you Erfolg.

 

I saw and photographed Pete's Jamara Gee Bee as he test flew it  last weekend and it flew very well. The kit has 'quality issues that'll be outlined in Pete's review.

 

An unusual model and a troubled build led us to worry that the flying performance would also be troubled too but we were in for a very pleasant surprise in fact.

 

Pic coming up......

 

 

Edited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 12/08/2010 13:48:02

[David Ashby - Moderator]

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

The GeeBees's always seemed to me like they shouldn't fly - the absolute antithesis of "if it looks right it'll fliy right"! Mind you of course the original full size version didn't particularly "fliy right" did it - managing to kill off more than one of its pilots.

 

I know lots of folks like them - and can understand that they have a certain individual charm for us - but personally I think they were an ugly aeroplane!

 

BEB

[Eck]

You can see why some folks call them "flying coke bottles"!

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Yup, as I say, one of those models where you don't know what to expect but flew like a good 'un. Looks better in the air than on the ground.

[Erfolg]

Biggles

 

I am totally shocked, ney, flabered and gasted.

 

In many respects, the Gee Bee story, is one that has been distorted by history.

 

The first untruth is that the planes were the product of a couple of good old farm boys. The truth is somewhat different. The racers were designed by a principal engineer we would regard as a Professional Engineer, in conjunction with MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) our equivalent of Oxbridge. The Granvilles were indeed influential, in the same way as Ron Dennis.

 

The design philosophy is indeed extreme. Determined by the duty, short course and long distance racing. I guess it is like comparing a present day Formula 1 car, with our average saloons. I think you always need to look at the period. As an comparative time line example the UK RAF was flying Hawker Demons as front line aircraft.

 

They certainly adhered to the aerodynamic theories of the time. Tear drop shape, what we see as a barrel. Minimum wing area, to minimise drag. As with extreme designs, compromises were made. The fuel tank was over the CG, and it could be big for the long races, this pushed the pilot to the extreme rear. The design has a certain logic, where the pilot is a nuisance, somewhat similar to how F1 drivers have their legs raised, to enhance aerodynamics.

 

As to killing pilots, some were killed. Looking at the histories of many aircraft companies and a lot of test pilots died, during testing. Remember there were only 3 I think. The Z1 then the R1 and a R2, these were then assembled into a Bitza, the R1/R2. These planes won a lot of races.

 

A replica R2 was flown on the air show circuits until a few years back by Delmar Benjamin. There are photographs of him flying the plane inverted, about 2m high above a runway. I have seen a film with the plane knife edging at low altitude. His comments about the aircraft are the main problem for pilots of the time, were lack of pilots notes, heavy fuel load, and contemporary aircraft which landed at much lower speeds. He also noted that the CG moved rearwards as fuel was burnt, increasing noticeably the elevator sensitivity and also there was a tendency for the flight path to be divergent, as the streamline vortices oscillated.

 

I guess the worst crash as it was idiocy, is that of a non engineer who knew better.  Cecil Allen, had a bigger tank put in, against advice and a legal disclaimer, which moved the CG even further back.

 

The full story of the company is fascinating

 

I think you have guessed I like it, together with most American racing planes of that era and the Messerschmidt 209R, Heston Racer, ohhh the list goes on.

 

Erfolg

[Lee Smalley]

Its short, fat, dumpy, squat, cute, racey,and different!!!   

 

 

I love it ............can't think why !!!!!!

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Yeah Erolg I agree with the design for function bit and the tear drop shape - actually I think it was Alexander Kelmin at New York University who collaborated on the design The Granville brothers spending three days with him refining the shape - doesn't sound much but in those days that was pretty radical!. And it won races and broke records. All accepted.

 

But regarding safety, Mmmmm? The R1 and R2 stemmed form the Model Z.

 

The Model Z crashed in Dec 1931 - killing its pilot.

R1 crashed 1933 - killing its pilot (the crash occurred on take off with full tanks)

R1 was then repared with some parts from the already previously crashed R2. This rebuilt plane promptly crashed and was rebuilt again and sold to Cecil Allen who, as you say, modified it against the Granvilles advice and - you guessed it - it crashed and killed its pilot. Not exactly a faultless record is it? Three planes crashed five times and killed three pilots!

 

 

And, sorry I know I am speaking of the "woman you love"...but I still think its ugly!

 

BEB

[Erfolg]

Hmmm. I think you have the same book I have "The Legacy of Speed, The Gee Bee Racers, Charles A Mendenhall?  In my defence they also are reputed to have liaised with MIT inThe Golden Age of Air Racing, pre 1940 by Schmid & Weaver. To sought out precisely who did what and when would take a lot of reading and agree that Mendenhall says New York University.

 

What is different about Granville aviation in air racing, is that they were in a tiny minority  of plane makers who had a team of Professional Engineers. Most sketched out the plane in chalk on the garage floor.

 

Perhaps if they had sought out military contracts,they may have survived.  Racing is a precarious means of expanding a business or even surviving. Lola, Chevron, Ralt are a few names amongst many.

 

There is one recurring theme with a lot of USA air racing at that period, was crashes. To me not surprising.

 

What is somewhat different about the Gee Bee, is the spectacular nature of the Z1 crash, in front of a full house of punters and it sells news papers, good newsreel etc.

 

It is the history of the engineering which fascinates me and the solutions adopted.  Not just Gee Bees.

 

Of course it is the extreme nature of these aircraft which makes them somewhat difficult to fly as models normally.

 

I am attempting to make a Bachem Natter (I have no umlauts) at the moment, another extreme aircraft.

 

Erfolg

 

 

[GONZO]

Like the Gee Bee racers but much prefer/love the Hall brothers 'Bulldog' racer. A 60'' or 80'' kit would be nice.

Edited By GONZO on 12/08/2010 19:16:14

[Erfolg]

Gonzo

 

The  Bull dog was designed by the same guy, Bob Hall. It was commissioned by Marion Price Guggenheim.

 

Not as fast as the GeeBee R1, being lapped by Doolittle in the 1932? Bendix. The performance was so poor it was dismantled.

 

It certainly has been modelled,in addition to the pictured ones.

[GONZO]

I was aware of it's less than distinguished performance. But, from when I first saw it on the cover of the 'Eagle Book of Model Aircraft' in 1959 and drooled over the C/L plans for a 1.5 dieseL, I was smitten

Edited By GONZO on 12/08/2010 19:59:14

[Erfolg]

Strangely it is on the cover of  a modelling book, that is on sale today. I think it is "Aircraft Vintage speed and  Team racers".

 

Probably in RCM&E that has advertised it.