Tony Nijhuis 1830cm Spitifre

[Danny Fenton]

Excellent Herri, and well worth showing. Are you using conventional methods to operate the flaps?

 

*Edited*

Just looked at the previous pics and you show how you are doing the flaps

 

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 16/12/2010 19:15:29

[Dusty]

Hi guys,

 

Herri thanks for letting me not hijack your thread and post progress with the TF Spit, I suppose the construction is very much the same by the look of you and Matt bashing away. I have run into many a curve ball with the TF kit but it has been a enjoyable build thus far!

 

I could not resist a mock up of fitting parts this evening so this is how it looks so far! I can share more photo's if you guys are keen, possibly share some ideas, I have diverted from the plans and manual here and there .

 

To give a summary I am converting this to electric, 6-8s lipo ( I hope to make the battery hatch via the bottom of the cowling). So far the top wing is sheeted (the wrong way) but I did this to avoid damage to the frail rib endings and will use the plan and trace paper to get the cutouts for the wheel wells etc when the bottom sheeting is fitted ( just waiting for a incidence meter to arrive)!!!

 

Anyway its kitted with CJ retracts with a 4 way valve from Phil at FA, got all the paints etc from him too. The finnish will be glass and decals applied by paint from Phil, stencils from another place for a custom replica. Lots of work letf to do! I was planning a sliding canopy and have got the idea sust, just need to put it into practice lol!

 

Dusty

[Herri]

Great Dusty, its looking good.

I also find a quick mock up boosts moral

Yes by all means share a few more photos. How about your take on the ailerons and flaps?

Where did your pilot originate from?

I assume if you are having a sliding canopy you will have a full cockpit.

Mine will also be glassed but I need to do some more research to my markings etc.

 

Today I just managed to glue a few strengthening bolcks in for the hinges and I am now ready to sheet the tops of the ailerons.

 

Cheers

Herri

[Danny Fenton]

Looks very Spit like Dusty  Well done.

 

Look forward to seeing some more pics

 

Cheers

Danny

[Dusty]

Thanks guys,

 

Herri I have not started the ailerons and flaps yet, they are of rib construction though designed to covered by solar film and the like. I believe the Mk.9 had metal sheeted control surfaces so there is no visiable rib lining? I will propbably get to work on them over the weekend, this is my first attempt to making split flaps so I hope all goes well

 

The pilot is from here , he will do for now until I can find a decent 3/4 body 1/6 scale pilot. Petes pilots used to do them but he has stopped for some reason. This chap from GC is a little to wide but a little trimming and he will fit into the cockpit fine. I am working on the full cockpit as I have cut everything in the fuselage to accomadate one.

 

Anyway here is my effort with a scale tail wheel using the excisting wire one supplied in the kit, just a bit of emaginationg and a evenings work. If you notice the tail wheel is in a "L" shape with a bit of brass soldered to it, this then connects to the rudder push rod via a ball link for full operation, not keen on castoring tail wheels!

 

This is the centre wing section, down side up, you can see the flap bellcranks operated via 1 servo in the wing. Flap and aileron hinge blocks in place too.

 

 Spent the good part of 8 hours today sheeting the underside of the wing whilst the wing was stood on the supplied jigs to avoid any twist. The wheel wells cut too, just need to test to make sure all is well. You can see the flap section now, the top of the wing where the flap is, is sheeted with light ply, flap pushrod protruding too!

[Dusty]

P.s if you guys want any referances etc that I have, pop me your email address and I will send you some files/pictures that may be of use to the cockpit, panel lines etc etc.

[Herri]

Thanks Dusty,, its nice to see how other people are getting on.

Cheers

Herri

[Dusty]

Herri,

 

I made the split flaps (1st time for me), it looked simple enough but proved quite a slog and tinkering process. I am pleased with the results nevertheless.

 

The flaps are not permantly fixed yet. The flap pushrod will be covered by the radiators once complete. I tested the retracts with the wheel wells cut, ended up having to cut them considerably more so there was no binding. I am dreading making the gear doors. The gear door template on the plan is far too small. Wheels are 90mm Robart ones.

 

Flaps down! There is hardly a gap when the flaps are closes, some fine trimming needed and they should be snug! Had some plastic pushrod windows lying about so decided to use them here as you can seed, keeps a nice straight pushrod.

 

Do you know what max flap setting was on a Spitfire btw? assume 45deg?

 

Dusty

[mal brewer]

Hello Dusty,the flap angle on a full-size Spit was 90%,either on or off,no intermediate setting.I seem to recall TN used about 45% on his prototype model............Mal.

[mal brewer]

Hi again Dusty,yes you're quite correct in saying that the wheel well opening needs enlarging from the drawing,or even from what you (and I ) assumed to be the correct size.The reason is because the wheels,as well as retracting upwards into the wing,are also,due to the angle of the retract units,moving rewards.I am also at this point of construction,mind you,I'm not as far into the buiold as you,I've only built the tailplane and the wing.......Mal.

[Herri]

Hi Dusty, you're certainly getting on well.

The flaps extend to almost 90 degrees (see copy of book)

 

This is what the real flaps looked like. You will notice they are two parts per side which we are not modelling.

according to this page they extend "85 - 5" which I must admit I dont know exactly what they mean. Anyway as Mal states, there is only up and down - no intermediate flap settings.

 

This page describes the flaps:

I trust you can read it.

These pictures are courtesty of The Spitfire MkV Manual by RAF Museum Series.

 

Hope this helps other Spit-builders out there.

Cheers

Herri

 

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Herri and Dusty, yes my books state 85 degrees as well so concur with your findings.

If you want to increase the throw Dusty just move the horn further away from the hinge line, towards the trailing edge. Lengthen the pushrod and increase the throw. If you don't move the horn it will foul the underside of the wing at much more than 50 degrees

 

I hope to do a bit more tonight as my wife is stranded in Paris, half way through returning home, Birmingham airport shut just as they were about to depart Paris

Will file the oak spars flush with the wing surface, one of the reasons I hate hardwood spars, its all to easy to damage soft wood parts when sanding the hardwood bits flush.

 

Then I guess I better look at the flaps.

 

Have you used Robarts Dusty?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Dusty]

Hi guys,

 

Wow food for thought and great ideas! Ok looks like 45 deg or so is going to be my max; reason is the pushrods foul agaist the the bellcrank inside the wing. Assuming you guys are using a independant servo per flap you can rectify this? 85 deg of "barn door" is a lot of drag, hence the Spitfre had a steep landing approach!

 

Mal you right, the wheel wells turned into a eliptical shape rather than a circle!

 

Matt the retracts I am using are Century Jet from Phil at Fighter Aces, they are a almost drop in fit to the TF Spit, narrowing of the mount is all that is needed (quite a task) to get things equal without filing to much wood away. I opted for a 4 way valve so I can adjust the speed etc of the up/down via 4 screws! Its pretty cool and effective compared to the "rat trap" of normal air retracts. The steel wire joiner from retract unit to oleo is pre bent for the correct angle of the strut whilst retrated and extended, so another bonus!

 

 

Hope your Mrs gets back in time for Crimbo, loads of snow here in Germany!! Stay at home and do some building!!

 

 

 

Edited By Dusty on 18/12/2010 19:08:30

[Dusty]

Here is the CJ retract for comparison.

 

The 4 way valve, valve servo, flap servo before being covered up in the centre wing section. I had modified this area, the plan called for the  valve and valve servo to be installed into the fuselage. This would have been a nightmare with the narrow fuz and also connecting 4x airlines at the flying field. If I had of been a better man I would have fitted the air cylinder into the wing too, to late now and possibly a maintenance nightmare! A big learning curve for me as I have no where as many building hours under my belt as you guys!

 

 

 

 

Edited By Dusty on 18/12/2010 19:28:53

[Dusty]

Herri,

 

I did the incedence check today! I was afraid because there was no mention in my plan or manual of the correct incedence of the wing and tail plane...Assuming one just fitted everything to the CNC cut sadles!

 

After some research it ended up as +2 deg for the wing and +2 deg for tail plane so an equal of zero with  the model balanced out on a level floor.

 

My wing roots were +2 deg. L/H tip, +3.5deg R/H tip +4deg, argh! LOL at least the cause of crash wont be wing incedence I hope

[Herri]

Not a lot of progress.

 

I cleaned up the under side of the wings yesterday and cut the tabs off with a small saw.

This worked well as it is ply. I then joined the two wing halves with epoxy.

 

Today I have been trying to get the wing to seat roughly but squarely before I drill the holes for the dowls. I am using a vertical mark I made on the tail as the reference.

This way I am hoping the tail feathers and wing will at least be vertical/square to each other. Its otherwise hard to find a suitable reference on this sanded and shaved fus. 

 

Cheers

Herri

 

[Dusty]

Looking good Herri,

 

I drilled the wing bolts last night, what a mission I say! I used the method using a pin at the tail with some cotton and masking tape to messure the wing tips following the guild lines I had measured and marked onto the wing and fuz centre line... Take a deep breathe and drill with confidence! My first mounting lug was no problem, the second spit so I need to cut it out and redo it arghhh!!!

 

I have been up to other things in the meantime,

 

 

I made the inverted V tail to follow suite if my intended sceme, still needs a little more sanding and filler! Oh I was thinking of putting a functional tail light on the rudder, any idea what colour it was? Red or white?

Made the cowling, need to cut the outlets for the exhausts with a dremel to help with cooling. I have glassed some parts of the insides to avoid cracking etc. I tried some revell model putty for plastic kits and it works wonders as filler for these bits, cheap too! A little goes a long way I must say, very strong!!

 

Made some gear doors. Not perfect but they will do? I used wax paper and taped it to the wing over the wheel wells, traced the outline and then glassed over the wing. This way the glass when set will take the shape of the wing! Once everything was dry 24hrs later I removed the glass cloth and glued it to wood (3mm balsa). Cut to shape and hey presto so grear doors! They not 100% perfect because the oleo trailing leg linkage protrudes out of the wheel well, if these live up to the job I will make some new ones... Ah I filled the wheel wells with some photo paper, tough, light and looks neat! I will show you a pic at a later date with the gear up!

 

Ok cut a hatch just behind the cockpit on the L/H side, glassed the inside and out to make the 1.5mm balsa easier to work with and take the shape of the fuz... A little wier handle to open the hatch with your finger nails or a small screw driver!

 

Hatch open and there is the air refill valve, the hatch is held closed via magnets!

 

Cheers

 

Dusty

 

 

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Dusty looking really good, you have made excellent progress. You have probably already checked but is the elevator shape right for a MkIX?

 

Cheers

Danny

 

 

[Dusty]

Hi Danny,

 

Thanks, no the elevator shape is not right for the Mk 9? The ballance tabs should be 90 deg not 45 deg! A easy fix though at a later date, I guess the more you induldge and get involved the more you find out after you have glued bits n bobs lol! Just build above the plan to get it straight though I guess?

 

I am not chuffed with the cowling as it has blisters on the side which is another inperfection to the end result argh!

 

If you have any other pics or media of a Mk9 please can you share with me?

 

Sorry Herri really am crowding your thread now lol!

 

Dusty

[Herri]

You seem to be getting on well Dusty.

I like the idea of the gear doors.

Is there anything specific (pics) you need of a Mk9.

I have a load of books so I could have a look.

Cheers

Herri

[Dusty]

 

 

Hi Herri,

 

This is the particular Spit I would like to replicate, anymore pics 2d or 3d you have or a similar Mk 9 would be of much use please (Confirmation of the elevator ballance tab angle) etc! Much gratitude as always!

 

Now you can see my cowling is rubbish for this bird! I think I am going to have to mould a new one and miss those blisters out of the TF kit!

 

Cheers for the gear doors, I think this is easiest way to make them? 

Edited By Dusty on 22/12/2010 19:57:08

[Herri]

I've been plodding on with getting the wing seated.

Its snowing here so I could'nt go out if I wanted too

 

I also checked today for the distance between wing tip and rudder center.

I had to adjust slightly, so I am pleased I took the trouble.

 

I used this method for seeing where I had to drill the former to take the dowels.

 

During my epoxy weeks I bought a load of cheap brushes, which I cut down making them easier to use for epoxy. The wooden handles I use as epoxy stirers.

As they are tapered I thought they would make good wing dowels.

They are hard wood, tapered and varished. I cut two suitable ones.

All very Blue Peter

 

The wing seating is now complete apart from epoxying the dowels in the final position after the leading edge/wing fillet is done later.

 I intend to put a removeable panel over the screws so they not be visible.

I have made a start on the U/C. I have put the air bottle in the wing. It is just visible on the top skin as it just protrudes the skin. This is however not visible when the wing is joined to the fuse.

Anyone got a trick for pushing the air pipe on these brass tubes ?

Dusty, I will look through my books this evening and see if I can find amything.

Cheers

Herri

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Herri will the pipe soften if you hold the end in hot water? That often helps with small plastic pipes.

[Danny Fenton]

As Chris says I have a jug of steaming hot water that I dip the tubing in first for twenty second or so, usually works a treat. I would give the tubing a flick to throw the water out before connecting

 

Looking good

 

Cheers

Danny

[Herri]

Thanks chaps, I'll try that.

Cheers

Herri