Stockport air Disaster

[JOHN THOMPSON 5]

Some of the younger fliers may not recall or know that in the 50s a C4 argonaut developed fuel supply problems on finals and come down in Stockport Cheshire in a place called HopeCarr, it is widely documented on the web, well, 2 years ago I was working on contract clearing rivers of debris, and one place that we where sent was Hope Carr , now at that time I was un aware of this crash, it was way before my time, and I tell you it really feels weird down there, anyway, whilst wading around in the river with me pitch fork hooking rubbish out , appeared this chunk of aluminium, so I give it a wash off and noticed that it had green corrosion on this ali, more likely Dural , it is possibly part of a C4 Oleo , I still have the part in the shed , I,ll photograph it and post it so you can see for yourselves .

[Delta Whiskey]

Interesting John.

 

When I was a kid I just about recall the Staines Trident air crash where 140 odd souls lost their lives due to Pilot error I believe, just after take off and weeks after I remember seeing the T tail sticking out of the field until they removed it. Just missing a built up area.

 

I downloaded the official report somewhere years ago, but if I recall the young first officer, was too afraid to question the senior handle bar moustache type Captain about retracting the flaps too early and the Trident ended up in a super stall and came down pretty much belly first. No survivors.

Edited By Delta Whiskey on 13/02/2011 11:52:17

[Bert]

 

I remember the Trident crash in the early '70s. The emergency workers couldn't get to the crash site because the roads were choked with sightseers trying to get a look at it!

 

Bert

[C Norton]

As I recall, the captain of the Trident was thought to have suffered a massive heart attack during or shortly after take off, following a very heated "discussion" earlier that day in the BEA crew room regarding strike action, which may have contributed to his illness.

 

It was the leading edge slats being raised too soon that caused the stall and I don't think they ever established who did that. The P2 and P3 were also very junior, and as you rightly say were, not experienced enough to question what was happening.

 

That accident, tragic though it was, brought about many procedure changes to enhance aviation safety which are still working well today.

 

The Stockport Argonaut crash was classic Murphy's law, a one way fuel valve had been replaced and a part of its casing, designed to ensure it could only be fitted one way, had been filed off to make it fit.... the wrong way!!

[Delta Whiskey]

Your Right Bert, lots stopped on the Staines By Pass to look, and it was difficult to reach across a couple of fields from there for the services crews, though all they could do was to put the fire out as I understood they would have all been killed by the impact.

Harrowing still when it's so close.

Chris is spot on too, I recall in the summary of the report years after, a lot of recommendations were brought in to make changes.

[scott cuppello]

Yeah, I was sitting in Manchester Airport Friday when the Cork crash came on the big screens.....a tragic accident for sure....but not really sure I wanted to see it half an hour before I boarded a plane?

 

I rememeber when I was a kid, we used to go fell walking, and occasionally we used to go up to the wrecks in the Peak District, most came to grief during the Berlin Airlift, there is even a local legend of a flying ghost of a Lancaster.

[C Norton]

The Cork crash was very sad, and like many others probably preventable. When the inevitable and well worn cliche of "lessons will be learnt" gets trotted out yet again I do wonder how many of these lessons (often hard won and paid for by innocent passengers lives) really do get learnt and for how long. How far can profitability in commercial avaiation go before safety is obviously compromised?

 

Sorry rant over...... It's my job and I can get a bit passionate about it sometimes!

[Steve W-O]

Posted by C Norton on 13/02/2011 13:10:42:

The Cork crash was very sad, and like many others probably preventable. When the inevitable and well worn cliche of "lessons will be learnt" gets trotted out yet again I do wonder how many of these lessons (often hard won and paid for by innocent passengers lives) really do get learnt and for how long. How far can profitability in commercial avaiation go before safety is obviously compromised?

 

Sorry rant over...... It's my job and I can get a bit passionate about it sometimes!

 

 

Yes it was tragic, and unfortunately as you say preventable. If the aircraft did not malfunction, it was preventable.

 

From the photos on TV, it looked like a Metroliner. Most terrible "flying cigar tube" I have even flown in, and pilots I knew seemed to have a very low opinion of it from the flyng aspect.

 

Now to do what everybody hates, but does anyway, give their imaginary opinion of what happened. Looks like he almost flew into the ground, frantically pulled up as he saw the runway, bounced and stalled. They made two approaches from one direction, where the radio altimeter would be dropping more quickly than the altimeter, maybe then forgot that when approaching from the other end.

 

 

Why speculate? Simple, it is the only explanation we will probably ever hear. Annoying as it may be, its the only way to satisfy our desire for reasons, especially when it involves the sad loss of life.

[Alan Cantwell]

i remember a viscount crash, me thinks, but first i have heard of this one, i was actually at manny airport one day, when a cargo prob job struggled to take off, and flicked upside down, my mouth was wide open that day!! dont think anyone was killed in that, thank god

[C Norton]

The AAIB do eventually publish full accident reports, and online too, but you have to be very patient as obviously it can take years to complete their investigation. Whether that is the same for foreign authorities I wouldn't like to say.

 

I'm not a great lover of speculation, an accident seldom has just one cause and it would be virtually impossible to assimilate all the relevant details without full access to all the evidence.

[Simon Chaddock]

The full accident report of the Trident crash at Staines is available at the AAIB's web site.

 

The significance of the crash was that it highlighted the fact that some T tailed rear engined airliners could enter a stable 'deep' stall from which there was no recovery within the height available.

 

The Trident was one of the fasted airliners of its day (Mach 0.88) and had a relatively small wing with complex high lift devices. Retracting the leading edge droops too early was courting disaster..

[001]

I was in a relative's house, in Chertsey, just off the A320, 3 miles from the Staines crash,at the time, we couldn't understand why so many ambulances were going past until we turned the TV on later in the evening.

A friend, in the emergency services, was one of the first on the scene. I think it affected him a lot.

[avtur]

I saw the Stockport Argonaut shortly before it crashed, I lived in Romiley at the time and it flew over head probably just a minute before it's sad loss.

 

My Dad was due to fly to Oslo from MAN later that day, he had a dreadful fear of flying, if he had known what had happened he would never have flown, but his boss managed to get him to the airport without him finding out (much easier in those days - news coverage took a great deal longer to circulate).

 

A small piece of modelling trivia to add, the crash site was Hopes Carr in Stockport, within 100 yards of a mill building which was later to become the home of Javis Manufacturing the model goods manufacturing and wholesale company.

[Mike Rolls]

One passenger survived the Staines crash, but only briefly - can't remember if he died in hospital or before he could be got there.

I worked for the Surrey County Council health department back then - one of my colleagues was the chief ambulance officer who was really upset at how difficult it was for his crews to get to the scene.

Mike