Six Different Quick Build Fun Planes

[Bozzle]

Tom,

Thanks for your advice. Do you mean highest point on shaft should be to the rear, bearing in mind this is a pusher. I am now on to Mark 2 which flies reasonably well. 15 flights yesterday (no wind) without any damage so condcept is working well.

I have in fact joined a club where I am being instructed to fly a wot 4 foam e but pipelagger is just to gain additional practice.

will try and attach photo tomorrow

[Bozzle]

Tom,

Mark 2 shown below On mark 1 the tail was too heavy so have moved servos forward and used HK carbon fibre tubes for fusalage. Wing is 6mm insulation board which is lighter/cheaper than depron but sturdy due to moulded shape (bent in a bath of hot water)

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi Bozzle.

Glad to hear you are getting some instruction at a club I am sure this will help with progress and of course meeting other pilots adds to the interest.

Thanks for the photo , the model is an interesting variation on the original design and looks like it should fly ok .

If you take a line from the end of the motor shaft it should pass through the a point on the wing which corresponds with the cog , which would be about one third of the chord measured from the l/e . This line represents the best theoretical thrust line . The higher the motor is mounted the more up thrust is required ,but as you have the motor mounted low the method described should result in quite a low up thrust angle.It's difficult to see from the photo just how far the motor shaft is above above the wing.

The model trim situation is the first thing to get right ,so if you power the model up to a reasonable height cut the power , and observe the glide which should be slightly nose down and straight ,if not trim as required ,then observe what happens when the model is launched power on , any tendency to dive climb or turn sharply, will then require the motor up/down and or side thrust to be adjusted.

It should be noted that the wing section you have on this model will produce much more lift than the flat section used on the original .This may cause the model to climb very steeply at higher throttle settings, so adjusting the setting for a sedate climb ,and slow cruise is essential in the early learning days.

Any model that is flown out of trim will be much more difficult to control particularly for a relative beginner .A Pipe Lagger correctly trimmed should be able fly around on a calm day with very little pilot input , however to much power , windy conditions, or out of trim , will result in fighting with the model rather than flying it .

If you are achieving multiple flights with out crashing then I would say you are doing very well indeed ,and the Pipe Lagger is fulfilling it's purpose. Keep up the good work and do keep in touch as relating your experiences can help others looking in.

Tom.

Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 04/01/2013 02:00:09

[Bozzle]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the advice. Currently the motor shaft is horizontal but almost pointing at the C of G which may explain why it flies reasonably well. I realise the importance of trim and am struggling as the current wing mount means its difficult to line up correctly each time. Would I get away witha flat wing with no dihedral as I could then position it very accurately.

I may be achieving multiple flights but quite a few are hard landings! A soft nose really helps

[Tom Wright 2]

A flat wing would not work unless ailerons are fitted .This would add further unnecessary complications that would be best avoided at this stage .

Your comments suggest that the wing mount is unstable ,resulting in different incidence and or wing positions for each flight .This problem can also be caused by having the wing bands under to much tension .

Looking at the photo suggests that there is not a continuous spine through the lagging which could result in a variable wing seat setting that will change depending on the band strength used , if this is the case a solution needs to be found . As a novice pilot it could be said that you are also attempting to design ,which is ,if you don't mind me saying ,is perhaps over ambitious.

You are probably fairly close to getting the model in flying trim and will benefit from the experience gained by getting it right . The wing seat needs to be held firmly in place and connected to the booms ,have a look and see what can be done , or take some photos with the wing off so I can see things better.

It is a bit tricky for me to be sure about any aspect of the model as it it is very different from the original, more photos and comments about the way it's flying would help.

Tom.

[fly boy3]

Hi Bozzle, Its great to see any type of updates to Tom's orignal PLs. Prop savers are the way to go. Although I never even scratched a prop on landing, as the prototypes were so forgiving and gentle when landing. I think Tom has taught a few pupils to fly with these models as well. I have built a few myself as an intro into electrics, and learned a lot. Why not build a tractor type to learn on, you will be amazed at their flying capabilities. Having re-read your post, you are doing very well with 15 flights. Good luck

[Bozzle]

Hi Guys,

Another day woth little wind -a chance for more flights and further observations

Tom, you are correct, wing section produces a lot of lift and nearly managed to lose it from sight!

Have improved trim which makes life easier but need 9 degrees elevator up to maintain level flight at low power

It still dives if I cut of power even if I move battery back so Cof G is 50% from LE of wing. Do I need to increase attack angle of wing.?

On holiday for 2 weeks but build program when I return is for:

1 flat wing with ailerons to use on existing fuselage

2 new tractor fuselage

[Bozzle]

Hi guys,

Further photos

Wing and engine mount wich is horizontal. Held in to pipe with vertical skewers

Fuselage made from 75cm HK carbon tubes spaced 5cm apart

Balsa sections fit in to foam and ply section holds the undercarriage

Wing section which is 19cm front to back and 3cm high. made from 6mm insulation foam (from TLC) which is very light but delicate. 12*6 mm balsa strut runs full length and is just visible at end which have been filled with buildes foam. Rest of wing is hollow. 80cm in total

Other info is :

length 92cm of which 50 cm is pipe. Wing LE 30 cm from front.

tail 30 by 10 plus 4cm elevator

weight excluding battery 250 gram

Bozzle

engine 18000kv powered by 3 cell 1000mah lipo

[Bozzle]

Forgot to say Prop is 6*30 and producesd about 215 grams thrust at about 40% pwer

Bozzle

[Tom Wright 2]

Ok thanks Boz lots of information . Firstly with some very light models it is often possible to have a rearward cog without effecting stability ,however it would be better to start with the cog at 30 percent of wing chord,and then increase the positive wing incidence until a hand launch power off results in a reasonable glide.

When the glide is ok launch again at a low power setting and observe any unwanted tendency to pitch up down, or turn sharply left or right, adjust the motor thrust line accordingly to correct.

I see from the photo that the wing band tension is isolated from the foam which is a good start, but that high lift wing could be compressing the foam at the front or back depending how the model is flown , but I doubt if this would be a major problem unless the model is flown two fast .Again I refer to the video above ,if the model will not fly slowly then it's down to a trim problem or pilot technique.

A warped wing can cause dread full problems that get worse with speed so a check on that would be advisable.

Only alter one thing at a time before flying again , but if you set the cog as suggested and pack the wing L/E up until she glides then I would be very surprised if you did not find a big improvement.

Of course light models should only be flown ,at least in the early stages, in light winds as wind and turbulence can result in misleading results that could be mistaken for problems with the model.

From what you tell us you skills on the sticks must be coming on well as controlling a model that is not set up correctly can be difficult. Try and get this one right and the next one should be easy .Enjoy the holiday and let us know how things go after making the adjustments.BTW a top view of the wing mount would help .

Tom.

 

 

.

Tom.

Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 05/01/2013 03:25:22

[Spikey]

Tom

I'm so taken with that last video that I'm intent on building myself one of these here aeroplanes of yours despite foam, electric and RC all being completely new to me. Dunno yet if it'll end up as a slight variant of your basic model (straight bits of spruce being unobtainable round here) or the aerobatic one, but I've so far got the foam and the carbon-fibre tube organised and there's plenty of pipe lagging to go at in the shed.

Where I'm groping in the dark though is a motor, prop, servos, ESC and battery. Basically, I need a shopping list! If you could please suggest specific items that I can get online, that would be a huge help.

Spikey

[fly boy3]

Hi Spikey, you will not be disappointed if you build a PL. As long as you do not over power it of try and fly in a gale LoL. I think Tom recommends a motor around 40- 60 watts. My set up for all my PL's is this, after consulting the designer. Hobby King Donkey motor, ST 2004, 1,500 kv. ESC12amp. 2cell,1000ma battery, prop 8x6. I bought my spruce from SLEC. As Tom says you could be flying for around £25 and he's right. Cheers and good luck, nearly all this info is in the original PL thread.

[Spikey]

Cheers mister. So I can use this ESC?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__2161__TURNIGY_Plush_12amp_2A_BEC_BESC.html

Any ideas for a source for the lipo? All I can see searching on Ebay is in the £12 to £20 price range!

[Tom Wright 2]

Spikey

Have a look at this lipo ,the esc type you posted will do the job .Also if you'r new to electric power this may help. If you are new to RC flying the aerobatic version would not be ideal , best to start with the basic one first ,and look at joining a club or getting an experienced rc pilot to help out.

Tom.

Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 07/02/2013 22:35:49

[Spikey]

Thanks very much Tom. Just one more question, I'm afraid. On your Mk2, how did you attach the pipe lagging to the CF rod?

[Bozzle]

Spikey,

If you look at the photos I posted on Jan 5th you can see that 2 cf tubes are glued to a 5cm balsasheet(cross laminated) and that the balsa fits in to 2 cut outs on pipe with cf tubes touching the pipe and is simply held in place by elastic bands

Bozzle

[Spikey]

Cheers Bozzle. That's given me a few ideas

There's some good stuff on this thread, but with it being so long, my head starts going round after I've read a dozen or so pages ...

[Tom Wright 2]

Posted by Spikey on 08/02/2013 07:44:17:

Thanks very much Tom. Just one more question, I'm afraid. On your Mk2, how did you attach the pipe lagging to the CF rod?

Spike

U-por or epoxy will work .

Tom.

[Spikey]

I'm obliged to you, sir.

[Spikey]

And for what it's worth, I just posted a couple of snaps of mine in this thread ...

**LINK**

[Tom Wright 2]

Here is the one of your photos Spikey .

I would definitely heed the advice from the other guys , chose a calm day and try launches at low power .

Tom.

[Spikey]

I will for sure, Tom. The plan is to start with the motor just running smoothly and build up from there, in much the same way as you start with 25 winds on a rubber motor, then 50 and so on ...

[JohnSom]

Hi Spikey

I like your skid. It will certainly help to prevent dirt and grit entering the motor. I also like the bold colour graphics. Did you use film or is it paint ?

If I may add a few words of advice learnt from the university of life. When flying downwind don't let the plane get too far away from you and don't try to slow it down by closing the throttle. This results in loss of air speed with the likelihood of a rapid return to mother earth. I used to make both mistakes resulting in considerable damage.

I think you have made a brilliant start on both building and flying rc planes.

John

[Spikey]

Cheers John. Colour is Humbrol acrylic aerosols. If you look closely at the starboard wing, you can see how bad my masking was ...

[Wilco Wingco]

Has anyone built one of these with a little COX 049 installed?. Or would that be too much oooommmppphh ?. R/C of course.