Burn battery burn

[Obzi]

I recieved a brand new battery today 11.1v 2000mah 12c and put it on my charger for maybe 10 seconds to see what the current state of play was regarding charge.

The charging light didn't come on and it also didn't show as fully charged which seemed a little odd.

I decided (in my wisdom) to connect it to a plane and see if there was anything in it, the very second i plugged it the whole thing sparked like hell and set on fire.

It happened so quickly i burned my fingers, the carpet where it fell to the floor along with plane which has a also burned a mark on the fuselage.
I quicky disconnected it and got it safe outside where i can see the whole of the wire from the cells has melted, the JST plug looks ok and so do the cells themselves.

A little bit of background, the charger is a dedicated Lipo charger that i have used quite a few times and only a few days before, it was on the correct settings for that battery.
The plane was running only a few days ago on a diffrent battery and not flown so there's no possibility of crash damage.

I would appreciate any opinions to the possible cause and where i go from here with my current equipment.
I am in the process of buying a new bigger Lipo charger anyway and have decided i will not use my current one again.

I am more concerned about the motor and ESC in the plane, could there be a short internally that caused this and if i connect another Lipo will the same thing happen?

I will be contacting the battery supplier so your comments will very usefull.
Thanks Ian

[Bladerunner]

Did it have a balance connector?
If in doubt about how to handle Lipo's, always charge the battery pack using a balancing charger or an external balancer. Also keep an eye on polarity.

[kam24]

I use a flight power V balance thingy which tells me the condition of each cell and an indication of the overall voltage of the battery which is also a flight power. I also use an E Station charger which has many built in safty nets.
Although this is in no way the cheapest setup, after seeing some pics in a mag of a li poly battery busting into flames, for my own peice of mind it was the only way to go.
I am very happy with my li polys but they do need the utmost respect and sadly to say money to get proper matching charging balancing equipment to look after them.
Still panicked when I turned the charger on for the first time!! lol.

[Obzi]

I'm still on the look out for the perfect charger for me, (see previous post) i need something 240v and 12v input with an idiot proof 'plug it in and a light tells me when the Lipo is charged' and then it switches off by itself.
I've seen the odd one on Ebay but always a little suspect if it's unbranded from China at a daft price.
All my Lipos are JST connection so would be easier with that fitting and complete with a balancer funtion in one unit would be nice too.
And did i mention for around fifty pounds too?lol
I'm actually looking at £100 plus, i've just heard of a couple more launched this month which might fit the bill.

With the safety on Lipo batteries such an important issue and so many new to using them now, i can't understand why there are not more idiot proof one box does it all to choose from.

[Geoff Daunt]

If it helps l use the Multplex Charger which does Lipo,Pb,Nicad, and NiMN.I charge from a 12v car battery, in the workshop. It is very simple to use and shows the charge rate and stops when fully charged. You need to select battery type and the rate at which you want to charge, but it is all in the instructions..
On Lipo,s l use an E-Station balencer in conjunction with the charger so each cell is kept in balence.
I am no electric expert but have found this system easy and have had no problems in charging any of the above types.

[Andy Gates]

Are you sure that is a JST plug?
I would suggest JST's are not suitable for a pack capable of delivering 24Amps.

Since you got no reaction from your charger when connecting your new pack, I would have been tempted to check the charger by fitting one of your other packs.

I would then have checked the output from the pack using a multimeter to check the voltage.

To check the gear in your plane I would test it using one of your prebvious packs.

Sounds like you have a faulty Lipo pack, try taking it back to where you got it from and get them to test it.

[Mike Rolls]

It does sound odd - and that a faulty pack might be the cause. Probaly impossible to check now, but I wonder if the insulation on the leads was damaged causing a short when they were being wiggled about connecting up to the model?
Mike

[winchweight]

What do you do if your batteries don't have balancer plugs? All mine have is the two leads, one black and one red.

[Tim Mackey]

Several of my older 2000 m/a 15C Kokam packs do not have balancer leads, and therefore have never beem balanced. They are now getting on for around 4 years old, have always been charged at 2A,
( sometimes actually 4A paralled up ) 'cos thats how they were used in the plane...being discharged in flight at around 45Amps. Although now showing a lower overall performance than when new ( hardly surprising ! ) they are still in regular use, albeit NOT paralled anymore, and discharged at around 16 A. Just double check all your settings every time you charge and you should be fine. Although I have a balancer now as my later packs all have balance leads fitted, I have yet to find a cell badly out of line with the rest. Depending on the packs make up and configuration, it MIGHT be possible to carefully check each cell individually with a multimeter probe...but I am reluctant to advise you to do this, as it does carry a risk - so I wont !! LOL

[Broken Prop]

I use a Pro Peak Constellation (about £80.00 IIRC) and it will charge, discharge and cycle most types of batteries from a 12 volt power source. The instructions are a bit confusing at first, but you can manually set the rate of charge for LiPo's or allow the charger to set the appropriate charge rate. It tells you when the battery is charged.

NiCads and NiMn batteries can be set on an automatic cycle.

I have just bought a Tornado balancer (from Overlander)which has dedicated leads for LiPo's with different numbers of cells. It monitors the charge very well. It can be connected to the battery on its own and will tell you if the cells are balanced OK.

[Peter Roberts]

I quite fancied getting a new Graupner 16 mains and 12v charger which seems to have in built balancing as well as dual power source capability and ability to charge up to 6 Lipo pack and LiFe's as well as Pb, NiMh etc

 I have been distrurbed recently hearing of a couple of serious Lipo Fires are there any technical risks according to which manufacturer you buy from. I've generally used Flightpower but I read somewhere that even their Lipos have been known to ignite. What's general experience on this issue of safety?

 Regards

Peter

[Mike Rolls]

From memory, almost every example of a fire of which I have read could be traced to operator error. Li-Pos are more critical in their handling than Ni-Cads or NiMh - but even they can go wrong if maltreated - there was a case at the World Champs about 2 years ago where an Italian flier had a 'hard' pack literally expode hilst being charged.

Handle them properly, and Li-Pos are no more dangerous than any other potential fire source - glow fuel, diesel fuel, etc.

Mike

[Peter Roberts]

I hope that is most people's experience. We've had stories circulating round our club's e mail and having an active discussion about recent examples where the LiPo fires have done extreme damage to garages wiping out models and in one case the complete contents of the garage.   

 I have subscribed to your philosophy and charge lipos outside in charge bags on a concrete path with balancer and high quality charger, taking as much care as possible but circulating stories and photos do a lot to shake confidence when people claim everything was set up properly and still went wrong.

 There is some suggestions that "cheaper" batteries from china are more likely to be risky than Korean batteries - has anyone any info on this - there are a lot of people selling - own label batteries. What are the "good" makes? I shall be interested in everyone's opinions.

Peter

[Paul C]

Another possible is that the new pack had the JST lead on the wrong way round (Reverse Polarity), this would have caused the charger to not see it, and depending on the make up of the ESC, could have caused it to go short once connected..

With LiPo batteries, 'you gets what you pay for' - the quality of the LiPo and internal connections/plates in the packs in some of the cheap ones is very suspect (some of the bigger makes aren't great ether) and is normally seen by cells that puff or get hot - these are normally the ones that don't hold thier voltage in use as well (ever had that feeling the motor should be a bit more powerful that it actually is in use?!).

A good LiPo should run fairly cool, (warm to the touch but not hot) and hold it's voltage under load when used with in it's limits.

Even with the best packs, it's still good to be cautious, charge away from anything inflammable, charge at 1C or less and don't leave them alone while charging.

Paul
AGPower.co.uk

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Frank Skilbeck]

As he notes the Lipo cells seem OK, it was the lead from the battery that got hot and went on fire, which points to a short when connected to the ESC.

Happened to me once on a set of 3300 nimh's connected to a cycle light, the cable in the light had got damaged and shorted out, before i could unplug the battery it had melted the conector.

[260 Flyer]

If it really was a JST plug then I'm not surprised it went up in smoke! You cannot fit more than a 22 gauge wire and have the insulation securely crimped inside the connector.

A dead short just waiting to happen!

[Peter Roberts]

I thought the JST connector is what was only fitted to balancer leads? or is that JSH?

Peter

[260 Flyer]

It's a little red plug that would look more at home plugged into a receiver than a LiPo!

It seems to be the plug of choice for "toy" RTF manufacturers. Just why anyone would put one on a 2000mAh pack is beyond me!

[260 Flyer]

Unless it was intended as aTx pack ?!

[Peter Roberts]

Do any manufacturers use that type of plug as standards - I thought JR and Futaba each had their own types of connector for TX's? I bought a flightpower TX pack for my JR 9II Tx and it was specified with a connector specifically for the Tx.

Does the little red plug you refer to look anything like the standard servo type connector used by Futaba or JR? I've seen lots of batteries - but usually NiMh - fitted with those as a standard Rx pack. :-}