Top Flite Cessna 182 build

[Phil Brooks]

I seem to be a thread killer. As soon as I start to contribute to a thread, other contributions dry up! Maybe they’re trying to tell me something, but I think I’ve found a solution. I’ll start my own thread, then I can contribute as much as I like, even if nobody else does!

Some fifteen years ago, whilst working in foreign parts, I bought a Top Flite Cessna 182 kit, plus an OS 91FS to go in it. For various reasons these have remained in their respective boxes ever since, but at last I have the time, the space and the inclination to start building.

I’m not the world’s quickest builder, even as a fourteen year old building Keil Kraft 3/6d kits I spent more time smearing balsa cement on my fingers for the pleasure of peeling it off than I did actually building, and I do have other interests , so there may be long gaps in this thread, but I hope that the need to keep up the postings will help keep me motivated.

First job was clear the workbench of the two projects already there. A half built Maricardo and a Coachman awaiting covering and fitting out, both free RCM&E plans intended to accept a couple of engines I have spare, but which have each languished for ages waiting for me to summon the enthusiasm to finish them off. With the bench clear it was time to get the box out of storage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By Phil Brooks on 23/12/2011 23:41:51

[Phil Brooks]

As you may imagine, there have been times in the intervening years when curiosity got the better of me, and I had a peek in the box. On one of these occasions I must have removed the instruction booklet, and it has long since disappeared into my large, comprehensive random access “filing system”. A quick visit to the Top Flite web-site solved the problem. Not only is the kit still in production, but there was a useful download page which delivered a pdf copy to my PC in just a few seconds, even though printing it out, all 54 A4 pages, took a little longer! Chalk one up for Top Flite. It’s a very comprehensive instruction book.

At the same time as buying the kit I bought an OS60FP as well as the OS91FS. The handbook says that the 60 can be fitted entirely within the cowl, but I think I’m going to go for the four-stroke. Partly because I’ve never operated one, and will enjoy the experience, but mainly because I like the sound they make. The 60 is now awaiting its’ maiden flight in a Great Planes Big Stik which is nearly as old as it is.

OK, let’s get started. It’s a big box, but it’s pretty tightly packed. Here’s the wood content.

 

 

[Phil Brooks]

The quality of the wood seems pretty good, although one or two of the die cut planks wouldn’t be out of place in an Ikea flat-pack. In a model of this size I don’t expect this to present a problem. This is far and away the biggest thing I’ve built, and definitely the most complex. I’ve never built a scale model (except for the aforementioned 3/6d Keil Kraft jobs), so at some point the decision has to be made as to how scale is scale. I’m certainly going for the flaps option, as that’s a challenge I hope to enjoy sorting out. I’ll probably include provision for navigation and landing lights, but with complexity comes added costs. My current Tx is a Spektrum Dx6i. It’s only six channels, and only then if I don’t need aileron differential, otherwise we’re down to five. Will I need differential? I don’t know until I try it. If I do, can it be done mechanically? Probably, but if it can’t then either the nav. lights are on all the time and controlled on the ground by a separate switch or I need a new Tx. I’m only a poor pensioner with a partner, two cars and a canal boat to support, so something may have to go. I’ll miss her!

 

 

Here’s the rest of the hardware, the cowl will be the size of a bucket when it’s assembled. The die-cutting is excellent so far, although I’ve only separated a few of the thinner balsa components, yet to progress to the lite ply pieces, but each piece has come out clean and sharp.

 

[Phil Brooks]

 

I’m following the build sequence outlined in the handbook, so that means starting with the stabilizer (better known to us as the tailplane.) I’m a bit reluctant to cut up plans, but eventually persuaded myself that it wouldn’t matter, and would in fact make life easier, the two plan sheets are quite large. It’s a symmetrical, built up and fully sheeted structure, but the ribs come out with substantial tags, making it very easy to build a flat, true frame. Once built the skins are made by joining a couple of 1/16^th sheets to make a 6 in wide sheet, which is then cut roughly to size. After the top skins are fitted the whole assembly can be removed from the board and the jigging tabs removed and sanded before the bottom skins go on. One departure from the handbook is that I prefer to use aliphatic resin for the skinning, rather than the recommended thick CA.

 

 

[sharpy1071]

Hi this is the same set up for mine, I've had it 5 years now and it has had hundreds (literally) of successful flights and never a bad bad landing amongst them, it flies itself but it is also mildly areobatic with loops, stall turns, rolls no problem with this engine. You will have to cut a hole in the cowl for the rocker cover, I did the cowl with the top removable for access to the engine, I have a glow driver in the cowl which makes the tickover reliable. I have dialled in some down elevator for when the flaps deploy and that made a great difference to the approaches and landings, I also put a suspension front leg on it which looks great when taxing!! Good luck with it you will enjoy it i'm sure

Brian

[Alan Cantwell]

i have asked my mate jonesy to have a look at this, he has one in primer, he may give you a few pointers that might be handy, i know he had a mare with the interior kit, but, like you, he fitted lights and gizmos, lovely aircraft, always wanted a big cessy myself, look forward to the build

[David Jones]

Hello Phil, my Cessna has been built for about two years now. The project stalled when it came to fitting the Top Flite cabin interior. The material used is very fragile, especially for someone as heavy handed as me. I've passed it on to a friend who has more patience, in return I'm building a DH Vampire jet for him. I've fitted nav and landing lights, along with a red beacon on top of the fin, the only trouble with these is they interfere with 35 meg, so I'll probably have to convert it to 2.4gig.

 

Just follow the instruction manual for the build and you should have no problems . I've got an OS 91 mounted sideways. The cylinder head just protrudes out of the cowl, acces to the neadle valve is on the top, and the exhaust exits nice and neat out of the bottom of the cowl (with a little help from a short length of silicon tube).

 

The only reservation I have is the fuel tank. As I'm fitting a full cabin interior the tank is mounted transverse behind the firewall, something I've never done before, and it looks as though it will be very difficult to access it once the model is finished, only time will tell. Cheers, Dave Jones.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Hi Phil,

 

don't think there are such things as thread killers, but making your own thread is much more fun. Made three build threads, one still to finish.

 

It looks like a nice size plane to me so you should put in every detail possible.

 

So lights, proper interiour and a pilot are almost a must (the final decision is yours, just tell what I would do).

 

The 4 stroke engine would have the nicer sound and would also be much quieter than a 2 stroke - but again - its your plane, and with a proper silencer it should be fine also with the 60size 2 stroke.

 

Looking forward to the next posts.

Cheers VA

[Stefan Hafner]

This is one of those kits ive been wanting to build but other stuff always got built instead, will be watching with interest.

[Myron Beaumont]

Phil

Don't know if my tip will help (grandmothers & eggs!) .I see you have a few plastic mouldings like with my TF Spit . I find it best to leave on most of the excess (1/2" all round approximately ) of unwanted flashing out of the mould and rub the whole thing on 80 grit abrasive paper .The bit you want will come away eventually nice and square .Just keep a tabs on it as you go .

Happy Xmas

Myron YO13

[Phil Brooks]

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement. The turkey molesting season is nearly over, and I'm back at the bench. Tailplane and elevators skinned, fin construction started, pictures to follow.

 

Dave- Yes, I'm going to fit the OS91 as you have done. Where did you get the housings for your nav and strobe lights? I can find plenty of suppliers of the lighting kits, but the housings are a puzzle. I too wondered about accessing the tank. I've got the cockpit interior kit. Its' instruction book says that it can be fitted after the build is complete, is that a possibility, as I'd perhaps think about retro-fitting it once I've got the plane flying. I too am a bit ham-fisted.

 

Myron- Thanks for that tip, I'll bear that in mind

 

Does anyone know how functional the struts are? From the method of fixing, small wood screw into hardwood block, it doesn't seem as though they are load bearing. How easy is this arrangement to rig at the field? Anybody got a better method?

[sharpy1071]

hi again the struts ARE load bearing, I went and got some great planes fixings (I don't know the technical name at the moment) but they have a very coarse thread on the outside and a fine thread on the inside, You strengthen the inside with bass wood or like and drill you then use the brass device which has a screw driver slot in it to screw into said basswood take it out epoxy the outside and screw back in job done. The only drawback is that the thread on the inside is an American size so make sure you get the bolts to fit as well. I placed a washer on the inside of the strut filler to give some strength to that as well. It takes me about five minutes to assemble at the field as I have also hooked all the wiring into one joint so it literally is one electric joint, two wing bolts and four strut bolts (I use socket headed screws), hope this is some help.BS

[sharpy1071]

Hi yet again!

These attachments are called Great Planes Threaded Inserts part nos GPM3360 through to GPM3368, do a google search good luck!!BS

[Tim Mackey]

Also available in various threads and sizes from the likes of HERE

[David Jones]

Hi Phil, with any American kit, I replace all screw fixings with metric, you cay get them with ease at any hardware shop (not B & Q, you pay more for the packaging) and, if you buy in lots of 50 at a time, they are dead cheap. As has been mentioned, the struts are functional, I've retained them with cap head bolts into captive or "T" nuts in hard wood blocks, you can use M3 or M4, dead easy and cheap as chips. Cap head are much more user friendly at the field as you can angle your ball driver around awkward angles or obstructions and still get a good grip on the bolt.

 

As far as the cockpit is concerned, the sides have to be fitted before the glazing. My model is primed and has an Autopaint two pack diamond white finish, ready for the coloured trim. There is no glazing fitted at this time. My mate will fit the glazing and cockpit in due course, then it will be masked up and the final white sprayed on where applicable (the rear window surround).

 

I've been a bit lazy with the wing tip nav lights, I've just got them protruding out of the wing tip about 1 1/2" back from the leading edge. It doesn't look right and I'll probably re do them. I've not thought about a housing at the moment. The red beacon on top of the fin and the white tail light are finished units and are fixed in holes with silicon sealant. It will give the bulbs a "soft" fit and the units will be easy to access for maintenance. The landing lights in the cowl will be fitted as per the instruction manual, with card tubes and silicon. There are a number of wires from the wing that will all go into one "Ashlock" plug. These are basically a multi pin servo lead plug that you make up yourself. I think the maximum they do is 12 pins, which would equal 4 servos, saves a lot of time and confusuion at the field. Hope this helps. Dave Jones..

[David Jones]

Hi Phil, just putting right a typo error, the side glazing has to be fitted before the cockpit sides, which have to be fed into the cabin area from the rear. You can't fit them through the top because of the cross member. Sorry for any confusion. Dave Jones.

[Alan Cantwell]

thats a fair point Dave makes about ditching the american screws, ans using metric,

[Stephen O'Neill]

Hi Phil,

I have recently started building a Top Flite Cessna as well after many years of absence from the hobby. Is there any particular reason why you prefer to use alphatic resin rather than CA? I am curious because I prefer to use the alphatic resin also mainly because I used wood glue in the early days and was comfortable with it although I have to say that the speed of assembly when using CA is impressive but in my case, more prone to silly mistakes.

[Alan Cantwell]

i take it you mean the referance to the skinning, CA does not sand, if you join the sheets with this, the material either side of the glue join will be erroded, leaving a ridge, aliphatic glue gives good penetration, and is sandable when dry,

[Stephen O'Neill]

Hi Alan, I joined the sheeting wih alphatic resin and have been continuing as per the instructions. My point was that being a relative newcomer in the use of CA, I initially applied it to the tailplane ribs, leading & trailing edges and then added the sheeting and did not place it properly on the framework. I subsequently got it right but the margin for error is a lot smaller with CA.

I saw that Phil stated a preference for the use of alphatic resin in bonding the sheeting to the tailplane framework and I was interested to know why

[Alan Cantwell]

Ah, i see, i dont like the idea of gluing the skins on with CA, if it goes off before you get them in place, all hell breaks loose, with ali p, 2 ways, put the ali p on the structure, place the skins in place, then remove, leave till nearly set, then re-apply the skins, and iron down, or, place the skins on, and put bags of sand down to press them in place, the bags go to the shape of the airfoil, the under side will need packing up for this, so there is no chance of warping the surface

[Stephen O'Neill]

My sentiments entirely regarding the CA. I like your suggestion of putting the ali p on the structure, applying the skins and removing them till nearly set. How long can you leave the ali p to set before ironing the skins in place?

[Alan Cantwell]

its been a long time since i actually did it, i would play with some bits of balsa, but generally, when it goes rubbery, it will heat bond and stay there,

[Stephen O'Neill]

Nice little tip, thanks for that

I am really looking forward to seeing Phil's progress with the Cessna and I expect his progress will be better than mine because my absences away from the building board are quite long as I work in the North sea. Thats the downside. The upside is that I have this forum as well as the Top Flite instructions. The jury is out on the finishing, either Monokote or paint. I have a Saito 100 and a selection of 3-bladed props so apart from the lousy weather out here I am looking forward to the rest of the winter

[Phil Brooks]

I’ve only been away for a couple of days, glad to see you were happy to talk among yourselves.

Thanks to Sharpy and Tim for the info on strut fixing. I think the threaded inserts are probably the way I’ll go, I’ve used something similar, but bigger, for holding together a cratch frame on a narrowboat. They have the advantage that they can be fitted after the wing is skinned, whereas captive nuts will need to be in place before the skin goes on. I had already come to the conclusion that the hardware has to be metric, saves a lot of hassle when and if replacements are needed.

Stephen, the reason I fix the skin with aliphatic is that I’m ham fisted with cyno, and only use it when I can know the joint is properly aligned and there is no risk of having the stuff run everywhere or of finding my fingers firmly attached to the joint. As Alan says, aliphatic is good for butt jointing the skin sheets as it’s sandable. I use a fairly thick bead all round and in the area to be skinned, put the skin in place and weigh it down with a pad of upholstery foam and a pile of old copies of RCM & E. Any excess that oozes out can then be sanded off. Haven’t tried the ironing technique, may play with that idea later.

It’s a long way off yet, but at the moment I’m considering trying Poly-C for the finishing. I’ve only ever used film or solartex, but I find it not really satisfactory when covering sheeted areas, and some of the glassing resins are a bit scary. Again, might have to experiment a bit before I make a decision.

OK, time for the big confession. I made a big rickets this evening. I decided to cut the hinge slots for the fin and rudder, then bevel the rudder leading edge. Out with the razor plane and sanding block, all went well until I offered the two up to check alignment, then realised I’d bevelled the fin TE, not the rudder LE. Doh! Only thing I could do was plane it down flat and build it up with a strip of 3/16. So now the fin TE is laminated for extra strength.