Covering prices

[Alan Cantwell]

well, even though no one wants to play guess the ingredient, all plastics need OIL in their make up, we use lots of plastics at work, the prices have gone through the roof,

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

I got a 10mtr roll of tex for a mate it cost including delivery from the UK 97euro (I hope he pays)
And unbelievably it's slightly dearer to buy a 10mtr roll than five 2mtr rolls!
I tried that film GC have except I got it from HK for ?5.25 for a five meter roll, and I have to say its great for the price the only ploblem was that the glue is white ish and can show at the edges. This is easily wiped away with tissue and white spirit.

Yes the price of covering is killing the kit/plan builders

[Alan Cantwell]

i think ypu all need to discover dope, nylon, and a little bit of messy fun, i used to get my nylon from dressmakers, gallon of dope from h marcel guest, cheap thinners, i could cover ten models for cheap money, all you have to do then is paint, lost arts, i can see them coming back

[Tim C]

Hi,

 

You could try here for some low cost film link here.Low Cost Film.

 

I have used them and find the product satisfactory. Its a cross between Solarfilm and Profilm, shrinks well and takes heat (better than Solarfilm), similar to the GC stuff.

 

They will mix and match multiple colours and lengths as you need it, postage using China Post is reasonable, and delivery is typically 2 to 3 weeks. Works out well under £2 a metre delivered.

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

I had a look at that site from a previous post of yours
I couldn't pick any other colour than yellow, but I am getting old!

[fly boy3]

WoW that what i call a find 35mhz. Think I will give it a try. As Seamus said, the price of covering is killing the trad. builders. Cheers

[Tim C]

When you order just put the details of the colours and lengths in the desc box, he will mix and match colours and lengths on request. Any qus just ask them, they pretty good at responsinding

 

[fly boy3]

Cheers 35mhx. and thanks.

[Erfolg]

It is a perennial issue, that is the cost of Iron on films.

 

There seems little change, in that is was expensive last year, and more expensive this year.

 

I personally have changed my construction techniques in favour of glass cloth over balsa, attached with WBV and then finished with WBV, I am also increasingly using Blue Foam and Depron in construction or for construction again with WBV. Used over foam, I do not think there is much difference in weight , compared with film.. Heavier yes, although not enough to matter in my opinion. In the case of sheeted surfaces, it is a case of would the structure have been open, rather than sheeted, to carry the cloth.

 

I do like films, but they are now used sparingly.

 

As has been suggested, the cost of film increases the attractiveness of ARTF models. Both in cost and a professional finish compared to my offerings.

 

[Alan Cantwell]

Told you, the stuffs oil based, and thats the issue, annoying thing is, if the cost of crdue came down by half, prices of everything oil based would only dip a little, ho hum,

 

told you, nylon, dope, and paint, models will last for years, might even repel impact with a planet better

 

 

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

This was the stuff I was talking about.

£1 per Meter

They send it in postal tubes so usually make up an order with a mate to reduce post costs.

 

Any one got a source of budget tex

[Erfolg]

Oil prices may have gone up, yet there is as a massive difference in the cost of the various films used in the packaging industry, be it food, overprinting, or even white goods, compared to our film.

 

Heat shrink as used for packaging is very low cost.

 

Perhaps the nearest equivalence is overprinting film. Always a high profit area, for the manufacturer. Here there is no heat shrink properties. The system consists of the carrier film, next a heat sensitive release agent film, this is followed by a pigment layer, finally a heat sensitive and pressure sensitive layer layer. The idea is to use a hot die, to press on the film , preferentially sticking the message onto a substrate, by the action of temperature and pressure.

 

None of these films have come close to the cost we pay. I guess it is a question of supply and demand. Modellers not being a big market, attracts few manufacturers, or even production runs of product for us, sticking to the larger packing industry.

 

I would estimate that a few hours of production would deal with world demand for a year. Probably not worth ll the paff of cleaning out pigment trays, transfer rollers etc, for a few hours of production. When you could be running for days to satisfy one product line.

 

I guess in the UK it is also a question of market structure, the various distributors are essentially wholesalers, not manufacturers, commissioning little, buying in products from suppliers. It is easier going to Solarfilm or a Chinese sales agent and buying in, rather than managing the task of approaching a film manufacturer. So I am also guessing there are a lot of middle men the supply chain with our film

[Guest]

Posted by Alan 4 on 27/01/2012 23:09:28:

i think ypu all need to discover dope, nylon, and a little bit of messy fun, i used to get my nylon from dressmakers, gallon of dope from h marcel guest, cheap thinners, i could cover ten models for cheap money, all you have to do then is paint, lost arts, i can see them coming back

 

I agree with Alan. While solartex is probably the best material to work with for the larger model, it is heavy and very expensive. I have gone to doped polyester dress lining which at about £2 per running metre and 40 or 60" wide as both inexpensive, strong and a shade ighter than solartex. Moreover, there are plenty of colours and patterns to choose from - altho you might get some funny looks being the only bloke amongst females in the dress shop - on the orther hand you never know your luck

 

Dope and thinners from the likes of flitehook are not too expensive.

 

The dress lining is put on as tight as possible as there is only a little heat shrink left in it. Stuck on with balsaloc,you can pull it tight with heat on the balsaloc allowing you to pull tight. 2 to 3 coats of 40/60 shrinking dope/thinners gets the material drum tight. Any slackness will pull to one corner, so dope towards a corner which will not be too visible. Use the solarfilm iron to shrink any wrinkles that might develope if material not tight enough to start with. Beware too much heat will take the colour out of the material.

 

See my albums for examples. The wing pics in the Mamselle album is lilac colored with purple tissue trim - as befits a lady. No wrinkles and gives a nice drumming for those wanting to practise their drum rolls.

 

The 72" southerner has been covered in dress lining which had a sheen on it , the yellow staying quite strong with just enough translucency (?) to show up the framework as befits vintage models.

 

The round fuselage was covered with just 2 pieces of material applied from 1/4" top spine to bottom spine. The orange tissue trim hides the material join nicely. Limited longeron area to balsaloc the material to reduced the ability to pull material really tight. 3 coats of 60/40 dope/thinners applied lengthways from top to bottom left one wrinkle on one side at the bottom, most of which came out with heat.

 

I almost forgot, doped finish is fine with electric models, for glow engines, fuelproofing is needed

 

John

[Tim C]

there are plenty of alternatives to film. Document laminating film provides a very cheap alternative to trad film, takes emulsion paint well, plenty of threads on this. See my Hawes Tucano in my album uses Doculam on the wings and fibreglass and Ronseal water based varnish on the fuse and painted in emulsion, all low cost, 100% accurate colour match and a quality finish.

I have also used Polyspan, I guess just polyester dress lining at 3 quid a square metre, does heat shrink and can be used with dope or ronseal.

[Ben B]

It's simple, they charge that much because we pay that much for it! I was recently looking at A4 paper for work, the same ream of paper (IE exactly the same type) was anything from £2.50 - £20! But people were paying £20 for it so why not?

 

When we all stop using solarfilm / profilm they'll cut the price.....

 

It has gone up massively though, when I was building in the early 90s (and a late teenager to boot so skint) solarfilm was reasonably priced and I didn't think anything of buying a roll or two (or three). Now when I go in I see the prices and think "how much?", let's get out the WBV, glass cloth and spray paints!

[Erfolg]

You know, I suspect that film sales have dropped greatly from say the 1970's, in the UK. Partly due to reduced number of active modellers and the inroads of both ARTF and Foam models

 

I have impression that the situation with respect the pricing strategy is that the reduced sales has been met with a response, that a higher margin is required to maintain profits on the sales line. If i am half way right, the end result will end with sales eventually being so low that no amount of margin can provide the overall profit required.

 

It is hard to know if the situation is distributor driven or manufacturer.

 

I guess that distributers see more sustaibale profit from the large ARTF packages, than in the distribution of a myriad of small low value products.

 

As for the manufacturers, I would suspect they are now looking increasingly for non UK sales. Neglecting the UK market from being competitive standpoint, relying on dispersed foreign markets, spreading apparent risk and increasing opportunities. Conventional wisdom has always been that a strong home brand is necessary to get the added value by association in overseas sales. Having said that, not many know or care with respect to Hyundai cars and home sales and the perception of quality. UK buyers not generally knowing or caring with respect to home sales, knowing a good product at attractive prices, when they see it. The weakness for UK manufacturers with this approach, just like as with cars (and many other products), more and more foreign sellers see the UK market ripe for picking. Pricing just a little lower, slowly but surely taking a share of the market. An aggressive company could destroy completely the home supplier. The UK manufacturers eventually not just loosing their home market sales, but seeing value for money issues eroding their viability in the long term. If film were a fashion product the rules would be different and massive sale margins can be maintained by practices such as restricting sales outlets, product placement and other marketing techniques, although RPM is a practice that overtly is not permitted by the EU, except when it suits them.

Edited By Erfolg on 28/01/2012 15:20:35

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

I agree and cant help feeling they and by this I mean Solarfilm are creaming us when they have absolutely no discount for bulk purchases 1mtr or a 100mtr its all the same, and concerningly   about the same price every where. Who distributes it? Its not like they have had constant development costs, the main film and tex have been the same for years.

Edited By Seamus O'Leprosy on 28/01/2012 16:16:53

Edited By Seamus O'Leprosy on 28/01/2012 16:18:09