Big Bandit Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hi Tom, Pity about the crash, but it always pays to wait for favourable conditions for a maiden flight and at least the damage wasn't too bad. Like Gordon says maybe wise to keep the throws on the rudder, elevator down a bit until you find out how the model performs. Looking forward to the next flight report, but make sure the wind is not too strong . Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Tom.....seems you had an eventful weekend!!!! I think the other guys have covered it but I think the combination of a bit too much rudder throw & a strong wind doomed Sharky before the first lob.....definitely cut the throws down & wait for a calmer day.....rudder/elevator models don't turn into wind very well....well they do but tend to get blown downwind whilst doing it which appears to make them very sluggish to turn. Check that the motor shaft isn't bent too....they often do....it would be worth trying to shorten it slightly if possible too.... Looking forward to the next flight....did you get out to Blackburn? Do you mean the playing fields at Pleasington.....Forsooth 'tis not too far from my house!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kal wise Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Steve, Yes, it is Pleasington, but we didn't go due to bad weather and some visitors came over. Hopefully sometime this week if weather is good. Kal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Chris - again You're absolutely right. Before next flight I'll listen to "older" modellers Of course I do note every advice and will make a use of it. As Kal says, he was busy and I met people with very good feeling of time as well We also checked shatf - it's not bent. Weekend could be much more eventful if I'd order more props. But till next attempt I will have a bucket. I'm still affraid that every single landing is gonna cause briken prop. Later will need to think about prop saver or foliding blade... Steve - if it's not far from Your house, maybe could we arrange flying session together some day?? Cheers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 What's this "older modellers" bit Chris is only 22!!! I myself am a mere stripling of 17...... You'll be fine with the props Tom......keep the nose up when landing & she'll slide in nice & easy....no worries. The thought of flying from the Blackburn MAC site brings me out in a cold sweat.....in my view its just an accident waiting to happen mixing, as it does, members of the public walking dogs etc & flying models...I've even see turbine models flying there.... Now I'm not saying that the Blackburn lads are anything less than supremely able pilots & modellers but to me flying models on a playing field so close to the general public is just not a good idea That said I'd be happy to meet up for a fly or such like sometime...let me know when the next Sharky maiden is happening & I'll try & get down......tis only about 6 or 7 miles away from me front door!!! You might even like to visit us at the Skelmersdale field.... Failing that theres always the Greenacres event which I hope to get to this year..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Haha, You've caught me again. I meant just "older by experience", not by (whisper it) age. Choice of the field I'll leave to You and Kal - personally known field to me is just the "Moor Park" in Preston. Will try to get in touch as soon as I know anything. Regards Tom PS - So this field in Blackburn looks exactly as same as Moor Park. I remember maiden of my Cessna - just her size has pulled so many bystanders with kids, dogs, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It was a complete lie actually Tom....Chris is 23 really!!!!! The BDMAC field is part of Pleasington Playing fields & as I say I'm sure they must be a great bunch of guys with an excellent safety record...not least because the council allow them to fly there......it's just not for me that's all!!! i know Moor park....just off the Blckpool road near Deepdale......interesting place to fly a model!!! Are you a member of a club at all? I guess the Blackpool club at Weeton might be nearest to you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 23?? OMG, I thought dinosaurs don't exist anymore.... Hey, wait, I'm nearly 25... I'm not a member of any club yet. Wanted to complete at least one setup before. I considered Blackoppl Club and even got some pdfs from them, like status, constitution ect... And from what I've seen on photos - it might be intresting place. The big advantage of Moor Park is a lot of place in there - but as I said, "normal" people sometimes do disturb... And it's nothing better than feeling, when You prepare Yourself to flight, check everything, fly 3 seconds an crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 H'mm.....Might I hazard a guess that you are not a BMFA member either then Tom....? Has anyone discussed insurance with you? Membership of the BMFA entitles you to 3rd party liability insurance up to £10 million. I would respectfully suggest that you consider joining the BMFA as a country member (ie not affiliated to a club) ASAP or at least before your next flight with the Sharky so you are insured should the worst happen.... Sorry to come over all Nanny State-ish. I know that things like insurance are really boring........right up to the point where you actually need it....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Steve, You don't have to be sorry about giving me good advices... And I'm pretty sure insurance won't be boring after my prop's met somebody's eyes or mouth. Nobody has discussed it with me "point by point", but Kal told me something when we met first time, and of course I keep reading forums. If I don't succeed to become a member, Sharky can be flown by much more experienced, insured pilot - and if then plane crashes - it'll be obvious, that something is wrong construction, not pilot or radio either. I'm not gonna cry after it, as I still got the plan and can build another one - more experience gained, more fun and more her indoors moaning. Cheers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kal wise Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Steve do you have a website or link on how to get to Skelmersdale field? is it a club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well theres not much to discuss really.....if you fly model planes you could damage something or injure someone so you should be insured....thats it really!! Its not a legal requirement but as a sensible & responsible person you know it makes sense. The BMFA organise it for the majority of modellers & becoming a member means you are insured....simple as that really!!! BMFA website is here I'm intruiged by your comment "If I don't succeed to become a member...." most clubs will accept anyone provided they can walk & chew gum at the same time (although you might doubt that if you met some of our members at SMAC.....only joking lads....). There is no minimum standard usually...by definition most new members are novices who know little or nothing about models & flying....joining a club is the best way to learn & flying tuition is usually free... So choose a few clubs & tip up on a flying day. Talk to people, ask questions & see which one feels the best to you & then join it......you'll be insured & have all the help you need plus somewhere to fly.....all for a few quid...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The BMFA website will guide you to local clubs........my own club, Skelmersdale Model Aircraft Club is here & then there is the Blackburn club & the Blackpool club.... As Groucho Marx said "I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member......!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hi. Just got back from another attempt with my Sharky. Weather was much better than last time, so I thought this is gonna be perfect day. After all pre-flight checks, I launched plane quite vigorously with 3/4 of throttle, plane climbed less than 10 meters, started to spin and crashed. Luckily noithing happened, just broken prop, but I don't know what was that. Me or plane itself?? It looks like I've got another static piece of wood, with possibility to play with on the table... Regards Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 H'mm....difficult to comment without actually seeing the "flight" but sounds a bit od. What actually do you mean by "Spinning"? Spinning to me is when the plane rotates around a central vertical axis in a nose down attitude...is this what happened? Did you cut the rudder throw down as suggested....I believe Sharky is a responsive little thing so it might be that....did you touch the controls & is this what started it spinning? Is the CoG correct? Might be worth finding some long grass & trying a power off glide (but with the radio switched on) Always launch in a slightly nose down attitude.....throwing nose high is a recipe for a rapid climb & a stall......unless you have loads of power. The other thing to try is a half power launch....I have found with small electric conversions that lekky motors are torquey beasts, compared with little glow motors & the torque reaction can roll the model....difficult to correct with only rudder!! At the end of the day such small models will always be a bit twitchy & prone to flicking....nature of the beast I'm afraid.....maybe we should give more respect to the pioneers who flew such models on single channel radio with 3 control options.....full left, neutral & full right..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W-O Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 If it climbed then fell in a spin, maybe it simply stalled? Looking at the first video, and slowing it down, it looks like it was in a spin then before it hit the groung (there is just a few frames of just before it hit the ground). Maybe less complicated than some things suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeW Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Random thought, have you tried hand glides (with prop removed and ballast added) Does it glide straight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ady Hayward Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi, I'm glad to hear the Sharkface survived the arrivals. Having looked atthe first video it shows the plane being launched much too nose high (Not helped by the strong wind at the time) and shortly after rolling to the left to the inverted, still climbing before it descends to the ground. As said by Steve, and GeeW try a test glide first. giving a good push in a level attitude to see if there is any warp in the wings or mis-alignment of anything affecting it. If that is ok then launch on much less power. Looking at the way it went up on the first flight 1/2 throttle may be more than enough. I had one as a first rc single channel in the early 70's and that flew well and was aerobatic on a 0.75cc diesel! The wing is a flat bottom section with plenty of incidence to fly on the low power, so having more power would make it fly faster that originally intended and give a strong tendency to try and loop due to the excess speed. Best of luck for the next outing Ady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hello! Sorry fot the delay with responding, but last time I just got too much kids on my head... Steve H That is exactly what I meant. Plane climbed, than started to "wave" the wings. I have tried to make it fly straight, then plane, as You say, started to dive and rotate. After I touched controls it got evevn worse, but to me there was no time to react as I should acording to my flying experience. Looking on second video (unfortunately I can't upolad it by now - full hd vid is too big and my internet connection is too slow....I'm looking for program to cut it) i think I know what did wrong * Have tried to fly it on my own *Too much throttle *Nose was directed far too high *I think I should try to launch it with lower D/R. I used 80% for rudder, 140% for elevator (which is too small anyway, so couldn't really feel it). Somebody told me that during launch I should use higher setting because plane doesn't have proper speed and lift. Well, maybe it works sometimes, but model seems to be overpowered, picks up speed and is very sensitive. If I used lower rates, than flight wouldn't be that "aggressive", but following that modeller - the plan was to lower them just after launch... And plane ballances in the point marked on the plan - so I guess CoG is ok. Stewe W-O I think that is the reason - too rapid climb, stall and hit. The only problem is I can't blame radio. I did all pre-flight checks and everything was just perfect. On the firs vid, the moment You can't see - model finished roll, started to dive and then was quite stragiht. Elevator helped a bit to level filight. Just before hit, wind simply pushed it and that's why it's fallen like a stone . GeeW I haven't been to the "proper" long grass field, so didn't test it as I should. Did some other funny tests, but it'd be better if I shut up now. Andy Thanks a lot! Next time I'm gonna fly it on 1/3 of power, with much lower D/R. I think that motor could be easily used in bigger planes, like Mini Tyro, especially with sport props. But again - the same guy told me I should use at least 2/3 of power to hand launch.As he flies from more than 10 years, thought it's gonna be ok.... Thank You very much gentlemen for advices and support. Tomorrow I'm gonna meet some guys, far more experienced than me, and maybe They will maiden it. All the best. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Tom, Steve's sent me a message regarding your problems with sharkface. Built as per plan Sharkface will climb steeply without any elevator at all and mine will go into very large left hand circles due to the very little torque created by the small prop on the cox motor. I've left this alone and not tried for straight flight by trimming the rudder, if the radio fails I should be able to find her. I have noticed your rudder and elevator movements are huge compared to mine. You only need 1/4 inch rudder throw on low and 3/8inch max on high rates and mine has a smaller rudder, over control is fatal. As suggested try a test glide into the wind on a relativley calm day and see if she veers off one way at all. I fly mine as a radio assisted free flight, I only use the elevator when comming into land or if she's climbing too high for me to see. Please see the following photos showing the movements I have on Sharky. The rudder is only 3/4inch wide and the elevator goes from 1/2inch at the tips to 3/4inch in the centre. If at all possible get an experienced flyer to try her out for you get you airbourne then let you get your hands on the sticks when shes at a safe height. Please feel free to PM me. Regards Lee 1st rudder on low rates Rudder high rates Elevator full up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 OMG!!! Comparing to Yours, I'm not supprised anymore why I can't control Sharky. So most likely that's the whole point. Once more - have been advised to set controls this way by that one person, he said it's gonna be ok. I wouldn't think Sharkie is that sensitive - controls are not too big.... Please allow me a few minutes to upload some photos of mine.... You'll see how it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Ehhh, due to technical problems, I won't be able to upload any pics unless I got my card reader.... But evevn if You kill me, I won't tell You anything, as don't know myself where it might be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeW Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 That is a truely scary amount of up elevator. 3D rate at least! Edited By GeeW on 25/02/2012 22:51:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Tom, Like Lee and Gordon said keep the throws down, the model should almost fly itself and just needs steering around the sky. Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Posted by Major on 25/02/2012 20:48:58: ........ I wouldn't think Sharkie is that sensitive - controls are not too big.... No but neither is the model!! Small models can be very sensitive....as you are finding!!! Maybe add lots of expo to desensitise the controls around the midpoint..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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