Aerotowing newbie

[Ian Jones]

I've been over at the RDMFC Aerotow Thread because I really want to get into that but I think here is the more appropriate place to continue my deliberations regarding a more realistic glider than our lovely wildthings etc., however whatever I get will have to be suitable for:

* aerotow

* soaring

* perhaps a power pod type motor would be nice too

 

but I think I will have to be satisfied with meeting the first two criteria.

 

With the criteria more or less set I've been looking around with about £100.00 to spend and sticking more to well know names. I think I have it down to one of these three:

1 ST Model Fox. Good size, fills the gap for gliding off slopes on not so windy days and has a built in aerotow release in the nose. Should be able convert my old trainer into a tug for it. £91.99 + Rx & Battery

2 ST Model Blaze. Looks racy and claims to be very tough. Aerotow release is built in but as far as I can see is not actually in the nose. £91.99 + Rx & Battery

3 Windrider Fox. Requires more assembly work, but not much. Does not have an aerotow release so I would have to accomodate that too. Tough as old boots and goes like stink. I'm not so sure that this version would be all that brilliant away from the slopes. £69.99 + kitting out.

 

So I think at the end of the day all three will work out within a quid or two of each other. Knowing what else is on the bench for this year (several past years too actually) I am very tempted to go for the one of the more complete ST models and I think I'm warmingto the Fox.

 

OK that's it - hit me with your thoughts chaps

 

 

Edited By Tim Mackey on 08/02/2012 10:11:06

[Steve Houghton 1]

Ian. I was chatting with Big Phil a few weeks ago as he was looking for an aerobatic foamie of standard configuration, i.e. tailplane and fin, not a wing. So on the slope one day I was asking about and the ST and Windrider Fox models came up and I had two very different responses. One was that in anything other than a light breeze the wings clap, so you need to add extra carbon spars and plenty of CW tape, and the other was completely the opposite, that the model is fine, so who knows WHAT to believe?

 

There is also the Multoplex Blizzard as an alternative to the ST Blaze, but these are warm liners, so I don't know how they would be as a gentle soarer from the flat field. I'm sure there are others on here that have more experience though.

Edited By Tim Mackey on 08/02/2012 10:12:05

[Tim Mackey]

Personally, and Im still an aerotow virgin too, I think the models you mentioned are too small for a good aerotowing session. From my limited experience, ( Ive attended a few, and flown a couple of models in complete extremes - (13 oz falcon with a 20" wingspan, and Simon Cockers 11' span B52 ) I'd say the bigger the better as these things get towed waaaaay up high, and small models would need releasing too soon, and therefore the flight duration would be poor. I reckon a 2.5 - 3metre is a good starter, but unfortunately these tend to be outside your rather limited budget - unless of course, you check for S/H on the BMFA site etc.

You will certainly get something that will suit both slope and tow but not sure - again cos of budget - that youll get the third criteria as well. In this type of scenario, youre always gonna end up with something that does all things reasonably well, yet nothing very well IYSWIM.

Personally, Id save a few more pennies, and get a nice 3mtr scale jobby like the new seagull pilatus etc - or as I say....BMFA classifieds often turn something good up. Likewise, at most aerotow events, people turn up with models that they are selling on - often bargains to be had like that.

Edited By Tim Mackey on 08/02/2012 10:12:38

[Devon Flyer]

How about one of THESE.

EPO foam, 2.3m span, retract and flaps. Bargain at £68 inc P&P.

[Tim Mackey]

Looks good - but again wont satisfy all three criteria. If you go electric, theres no way of fitting the tow release, unless you buy two fuselages

[Devon Flyer]

Posted by Tim Mackey on 08/02/2012 17:00:03:
Looks good - but again wont satisfy all three criteria. If you go electric, theres no way of fitting the tow release, unless you buy two fuselages

 

Surely that's the same with any electric glider you want to aerotow?

This one includes a spinner and nose cone allowing you to choose between a powered or un-powered setup.

Edited By Devon Flyer on 08/02/2012 17:19:51

[Ultymate]

Tim I know you've seen some of the big models get specced out by the tug but in reality if being towed with a smaller glider it's totally up to the glider pilot to get off the tow whenever he so chooses at a comfortable height.. Usually manners to tell the tug pilot you're releasing.

[Tim Mackey]

Posted by Devon Flyer on 08/02/2012 17:17:44:

Posted by Tim Mackey on 08/02/2012 17:00:03:
Looks good - but again wont satisfy all three criteria. If you go electric, theres no way of fitting the tow release, unless you buy two fuselages

 

 

Surely that's the same with any electric glider you want to aerotow?

This one includes a spinner and nose cone allowing you to choose between a powered or un-powered setup.

Edited By Devon Flyer on 08/02/2012 17:19:51

 

I was thinking more of a power pod style setup. besides, I still think its a big ask for all three, at the price etc.

[Tim Mackey]

Posted by Ultymate on 08/02/2012 17:23:08:
Tim I know you've seen some of the big models get specced out by the tug but in reality if being towed with a smaller glider it's totally up to the glider pilot to get off the tow whenever he so chooses at a comfortable height.. Usually manners to tell the tug pilot you're releasing.

 

 

Fair point Bri

[Ian Jones]

Some more great suggestions coming along. Oh this is going to be difficult .

 

I'll let it run a little longer then I'll see if I can make decision!

 

[FWAL]

This Jamara DG 1000 is within your price bracket has a fairly good 2.6m wing span but no tow release

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

How about towing with a shockie

 

[Ian Jones]

Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions, all very much appreciated - evry single one of them, well not so sure about Chris Bott's suggestion .

 

Now to narrow the choice down a bit.

 

I want to turn up at Rhyl with a model capable of being aerotowed but that's not quite enough - it has to be have been test flown and I need to be familiar with it's characteristics too. Anything less would be pretty reckless.

 

So it has to be something that I can either fly from club patch (therefore with a motor) and/or flown from a nearby slope with not too rocky a landing zone. For the former it can have any construction but for the latter it pretty much has to foam so it can take a not so good landing or two as my slope landing technique is still developing. The other problem with the latter is that at this moment I do not have access to any such slope.

 

As I want to make progress with this it seems then that I must go for foam & power. Understanderbly, I have not found a powered glider with provision for aerotowing. That doesn't mean a tow release can't be fitted though and Tim has already demonstrated that in his Buff blog. Of course to achieve this the motor & prop will have to be fuselage mounted.

 

I did toy with the idea of some sort of interchangeable nose or fuselage and I haven't totally ruled that out but there is another advantage to having the option to use power - the option to abort a landing that falls short or more likely goes too long to land on the strip but with insuffient glide to go around. Even though I say it myself I am actually pretty good at flat field landings but unfamiliar locations can mess up perceptions. For example I am used to landing with an approach between trees. Apart from treating them with due respect I also find that they provide excellent markers and depth of field. The first time I had to land without the help of these trees required a quick rethink on how to judge the approach.

 

I'm hoping to get another transmitter soon so whatever I buy now will have an impact on that purchase too - hence the somewhat frugal budget. This will inevitiabley affect the wingspan of the glider I end up with and I can really appreciate the points about going for 2.5M+ but that's just not going to happen. I have set a 2m minimum span though.

 

More and more this points back towards something like the Axion Cumulus 200 3X I first mentioned but it seems that very little information is available about it.

 

So I'm finding circumstances pushing me towards the ST Models DG 1000 which has a fuselage retracting propeller. All it's really missing is the tow release and that seems to be nothing more than a small release mechanism & a servo to implement. We all have to start somewere and I'm feeling the urge to get on with it .

 

 

 

 

[David Gilder]

Sounds to me Ian that you have really already made up your mind there.

 

So get it ordered!!

[Ian Jones]

You may well be right and I'm grateful for all the contributions from everyone. Hopefully this means I have sufficient thought into the choice ans it will therefore turn out as intended.

 

Now then, time to do some bargain hunting

[Tim Mackey]

Yup, go for the DG1000 - and fit your own tow release, which shouldnt be too much of a challenge to a good builder such as yourself.

Do be sure though that the mechanism is firmly fitted, to a good solid structure - perhaps a shortened ply spine like on the BUFF may be a good idea?

I really dont know whats inside the nose of the model, and I guess unless you have someone who does, you may have to find out after you buy it!

[Ian Jones]

Well Tim I've had a look at the specs for the tow release you have. Being 12mm OD & 25mm long I think I should be able to do something. Noted your comment about security, we don'y want to see it getting it's nose ripped off do we .

 

Though I suspect the biggest problem will be finding somewhere to put the servo and routing the pushrod/snake.

[Tim Mackey]

Nah, should be easy enough Ian. It uses a very thin steel snake inner, and flexible outer ( not supplied incidentally ).

Standard, or even mini servo should suffice as there is little or no strain imparted during operation, and very little travel is needed either.

Im aware that some folk have utilised the rudder servo to activate the tow release - the required action kicking in at FULL rudder deflection IYSWIM

Edited By Tim Mackey on 09/02/2012 23:41:15

[Ian Jones]

Should be just the job then - looks like there will be some action tomorrow .

 

I haven't decided on the Tx I'll use yet, depends on where I can find a spare memory slot really but I should have enough channels to have the release working independently.

[Ian Jones]

I've been shopping .

 

I am fortunate that Barnstormers Model Shop is within 2 miles of my home, probably less as the crow flies. I already have a couple of suitable LiPos so all I need is a receiver and it will be ready to fly.

 

I'll decide on the receiver when I've sussed out the space allocation, which looks quite tight, I've got to squeeze another servo in there tyet too. I'd like to put in a Hitec Optima so that I can use telemetry, GPS in particular to find out just how high & how far I'm flying. Space maybe so tight that I will have to use a Hitec Minima instead - that's still 6 channels but it's tiny, lightweight and full range but no telemetry.

 

The tow release is on order - no problem, I'm going to assemble and test it before making any modifications anyway.

 

The decals aren't up to much and orientation/visibility has already been mentioned. Thinks I might airbush some acrylic paint here and there. (Did you hear that Marty Ball? Now don't go expecting one your works of art, we are at the basic of basics here )

[Ian Jones]

Nearly ready for a maiden flight, possibley tomorrow.

 

Impressions at the moment?

 

Well I'm not a big fan of foam, I consider it a necessary evil to suit some circumstances and light markings in the foam from packing and a tailplane and fin that shivers when the motor is run doesn't make me feel all that happy. I hope they will be more steady with air flowing over them.

 

The Retractable Motor System servo will not stop buzzing no matter what EPA adjustments I make. I suspect the drive belt is too tight, these are known to stretch over time so again maybe in use that might resolve itself.

 

Sold as an ARF - "....just add Rx & Battery and you are ready to fly" should mean just that and I'm sure that was the intention, so it would have been nice if the elevator push rod had been attached to the servo.

 

For all that, it goes together well and apart from rather naff decals it looks good.

 

Anyway to the real reason I started this post particular post . I have just been setting the failsafe which I've set to motor off/parked, flaperons up, eilerons level, elevator level - comments on that welcome but in the process I read the instructions that came with Rx how on how to set it and one important little extra was mentioned "aero-tow release open". Since I will be retro fitting mine that would be easy to overlook!

 

Edited By Ian Jones on 11/02/2012 16:24:10

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Blimey what radio do you use Ian? They sound very comprehensive instructions.

[Ian Jones]

Well before today I would have said the instructions for the Hitec receivers were typically "just adequate". Well, I had no problems with binding, no problems setting the failsafe and it all works. Perhaps the instructions are "just right".

[Tim Mackey]

Quick work Tony.....you gonna join us up the Orme for its maiden tomorrow after lunch mate?

[Ian Jones]

A murky misty day presented itself for the maiden flight and I really had to get a grip of myself and think about whether or not the flight could be safely made. I felt it was okay but was I getting carried away with the occasion?

 

Ground level visibility was acceptable but what about the ceiling? Well I could see the top of all of the power pylons without any problems so satisfied that I was able to make a maiden flight within that limit I went ahead. I managed to get a second flight in before I ran out of battery power and the mist closed in more which would have prevented anymore flights anyway.

 

This is the available space under the canopy:

It's not a lot! The 35Mhz Rx has now been replaced with a Hitec Minima 6e which is only about 1/4 the size and very light. So light that the glider was tail heavy and I had to put 10 grammes in the nose.

 

Just because it comes as RTF I would hope that's how it would be but I routinely check links anyway. Although it would have become obvious the check revealed that the elevator was not connected:

So here we are, ready to go. I've wrapped some packing tape, sticky side out around the fuselage and wing tips. Then I stuck another layer of packing tape sticky side in, on top with just enough touching the underside of the wings to prevent the tape slipping off. This gave me a visual reference which I can easily remove when I have decided on what I would like instead of the rather boring stickies that came in the box:

 

What no Tx. Okay it's a pose . I was on my own, hand launching and taking photos at the same time, erm no - I struggle enough as it without trying to do the impossible:

Here she is in flight. Hang on didn't I say I couldn't take photos and fly at the time? Okay, it's an "artists impression" but it does accurately reflect the flight and the conditions at the time:

This how the maiden flight ended:

So happy with that it was time for a second flight.

 

I thought the elevator response was okay but a bit lazy on the first flight so I took out the afore mentioned 10 grammes. Sure enough it was more to my liking, until I folded the motor away for the first time. Yipes and aaarrgh . It became nice and slippery in the air but so pitch sensitive that a few moments of porpoising followed while I got to grips with it - the motor was soon out again I can tell you.

So at the end of the day it was all a success, clearly I have to resolve the CG issue though I think that will be straight forward enough. When that's done it will be time for the paint job and fitting the aerotow release.

 

Speaking of paint. I'm planning on airbrushing some acrylic paint on the wing tips, tailplane tips, some sort of straight lines under the wings and perhaps a few drops in one or two other aesthetic places - just enough for good visibility at altitude.

 

How well does acylic take to smooth white foam? Should I use acrylic thinners or will water do?