Dornier found

[Simon Chambers]

BBC has a new video online, showing the latest work restoring the Dornier.

**LINK**

Personally I think its great that its happening.

What many people don't realise is that there isn't plans or engineering drawings of most of these aircraft. These were destroyed either during the war (bombing, etc) or after the war when the type becomes obsolete (when people don't appreciate the historic significance of the aircraft as it was so soon). So building a replica is almost impossible without something to compare against.

I remember a colleague who worked at a aero trust telling me that for a long time the Bristol Beaufort blue prints were missing. They were hidden during the war to prevent them being damaged - but no-one really knew where they were put. Anyway when a major restoration happened of one of the original design offices, they were found hidden up in the roof. Unfortunately the wax lined tubes that they were stored in had failed, so after 40-50 years of elements leaking onto them they were mouldy mush.

I have no evidence either way of the Dornier, but I imagine its probably a similar scenario that all the original design drawings are long gone.

Si.

[Dave Bran]

As Chairman of a group of five who have in trust 16 pre-WW2 buses, the chassis of the oldest of which reaches 100 years old this year, the body being even older, I have experienced first hand for the last 14 years the pressure of restoring and then the effort of keeping these in as near "original" condition as possible. Most of our vehicles are "last man standing" worldwide

There are always those that carefully ignore the effort and personal sacrifice needed to do this ongoing and effectively "demand" access and influence and control over the results. It's amazing how something that nobody in their right mind would look twice at suddenly becomes "important public property" when all the hard work has been done to make the prospect of a complete article possible.

My attitude to restore or conserve is quite simple, if there is already a complete one to view somewhere, then conserving in a stable state "as is" becomes a viable option worth considering, without that, all efforts should be made to restore to as near original condition as conditions and funds allow, but it is purely the decision of the owning group.

If you have an interest, support the group directly!!!

[Stephen Grigg]

Very interesting post Dave and one that should be noted

[Essjay]

Simon, I watched an interview on the BBC news this morning with the project manager in charge of the Dornier restoration, and he said they have a complete set of diagrams and plans which were obtained from Germany.

[Erfolg]

In the case of German aircraft, I do not think there was any attempt during WW2 to hide any drawings as a precautionary act.

Much of the German aircraft production was done by subcontracting whole aircraft as batches, and increasingly subcontracting component parts, in addition to dispersed manufacture.

In the case of the Beufighter, it really would surprise me if Bristol was worried about drawings falling into German hands, as the war would have been effectively over, if the Germans were there to get there hands on them. Some how I cannot have envisaged that the Germans would have been in  any rush to build British aircraft. It is more likely that the drawings had gone into storage, as perhaps being useful next week, which became years, by which time all had forgotten about the data.

To many of us modellers, just seeing a WW2 aircraft is illuminating, realising how small and crammed many of the were on both sides. Aircraft such as Liberators, which I saw as a static at Cosford I think. Walking through the fuz of a Flying Fortress at the Wings of Fame? (Florida) was rather a crammed walk.

I would like to see the Dornier complete.

Edited By Erfolg on 09/01/2014 15:59:04

[Rich too]

Posted by The Wright Stuff on 12/06/2013 08:49:14:

To be honest, though - they've raised the money and put the effort in, and I respect their decision to spend it how they see fit - whatever the final outcome.

Er, they haven't raised the money, they are still looking for funding.

Waste of time/money/resources - jmho!

Rich

[Barrie Dav 2]

Whilst replicas are useful to show what the original looked like, they have no soul or atmosphere. To see the original or the remains of the original makes one think of the crew or operators of the equipment. If enthusiasts wish to raise money to preserve some historic item then good luck to them. To me, the vast amount of money paid to some footballers is questionable but that is the choice of those who pay the inflated ticket prices. Diverse interests is what makes life more interesting

[Prop Nut]

I know it doesn't change anything, but Simon was referring to the Bristol Beaufort, not the Beaufighter, which was a development of the Beaufort. I'm hoping to visit the museum at Moorabbin, Victoria, in March this year to see their restored Beaufort.

[Andy48]

Posted by Rich2 on 10/01/2014 06:51:25:

Waste of time/money/resources - jmho!

Rich

Equally true of flying model aeroplanes. We do things because either we or others will get pleasure out of it.

[Dai Fledermaus]

I've often thought about this subject when I had the opportunity to rebuild/restore and 1961 Triumph T100A some years ago. It was complete, more or less when I bought it, but very tatty, so I set about restoring it. I took it apart repaired, repainted, rechromed and replated everything and put it back together again,

The question is should I have done? For example the wheels were rebuilt with new rims, and stainless steel spokes, so they were certainly not original. They were better than original. I replaced items like the dual seat and changed the ignition system to something more reliable. As it was there was no ignition switch, all you had to do was kick it over and it would start. A bit of a worry if you left it anywhere in this day and age.

When I finished the bike was roadworthy and usable, but far from original. It had lost it's patina, In antique terms, I had devalued it. On the other side of the coin it is better to not only see, but to hear the sound of a classic British motorbike on the road.

[Erfolg]

From visiting many classic motor events, I do not think it matters to what extent refurbishment is undertaken.

Ir was apparent that many cars restored to original specifications and condition were significantly better than anything that rolled of the production lines of the UK major manufacturers.

Then there was those who restored a vehicle by modifying them using modern wheels and tyre combinations. The use of modern dampers and other suspension modifications being typical and so on.

What ever is done does not really matter to the average punter, only the obsessives, the rest of us just see a car that has the feel from an a past era.

On that basis, how extensive the rebuilding, will nor matter to most. A complete restoration will probably find more favour with the public. As it is, it is similar to going to a ruin of a cathedral or castle, most of us see a pile of rubble, our imaginations needing some help.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Prop Nut,

The Beaufort at RAF Hendon is pictured below. My brother-in-law now 94 did his tour in Beauforts as a navigator. His pilot's name was Alan Etheridge-no relation!

Many Beauforts were of course constructed in Australia and hence I assume the aircraft in Victoria?

MJE

[Colin Leighfield]

While in Australia last year I visited the airfield at Sale in Victoria, which used to be RAAF and during the war was a training base, operating Beauforts and Fairey Battles. There is a lot of memorabilia there and loads of interesting photos. Also there are two Grumman Trackers parked up which used to be flown off the carrier HMAS Melbourne until it was retired at about the same time as we lost Ark Royal. Although meant to be out of bounds, I managed to cadge a climb inside one of them, which was fascinating. All of the kit is still inside and it is very cramped!

Apparently the Australian government sold these to I think one of the South American states some years ago, but they were stopped by the USA who exercised a right to block the sale on the grounds that these planes are classed as nuclear capable.

As far as the Dornier is concerned, I would like to see it restored as far as possible. We don't stop loving HMS Victory or Cutty Sark because hardly any of the wood is original. Also, it keeps being referred to as a "Flying Pencil" when actually it isn't. The original 17 was the pencil but the narrow fuselage was so impractical that the deeper front end we see on this Do17Z was introduced. That lead to the 215, 217 etc. Great aeroplanes, but not "flying pencils".