Beginner have a mare!

[David Jacobs]

Just bought a Hobbyzone Champ as my reading indicated it was the easiest to start with single handed. Within half an hour of returning with said box i'm in the air, for about 10 seconds. About forty attempts later and two charges i'm at a loss. I get it in the air but it keeps banking left. All the trims look spot on, winds supposedly at 14mph with a slight breeze. What do I do?

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Hi David and welcome to the forum.

Getting that first plane right can be really difficult as you start to learn.

First of all do the wings look straight? or twisted. look directly on to the nose from exactly head on. Neither wing should appear to have a twist at all. (On the off chance that they are meant to have a slight twist, this should be perfectly symmetrical).

Have you checked the centre of gravity of the model, the manual should show where this should be and should explain hor to check.

Next, when you launch, are you launching exactly into the wind. Check wind direction by throwing some grass in the air and launch exactly at it. With that model you're probably best flying when theres little or no wind anyway.

I'm sure there will be plenty of help here, and possibly someone local who could help if you let us know where you are.

[Mart49]

David, is it this champ ? If so, then 14mph winds will probably toss it around like a leaf as it weighs only 1.3 oz! Might be better to try somewhere indoors to start, or wait for a dead calm day

[David Jacobs]

Hi Yes everything looks fine. And yes it is this champ . I am throwing it into the wind though the wind is swirling (more of a breeze) (nice day in London today) Strange thing is that whichever way I throw it I get the same result, in it wanting to bank left. Obviously i've never flown before so am also struggling with overcompensating, etc. If anyone is in the Herts/N.London area that would be great.

Thanks for advice though

[Ben B]

I'm in NW11 if that's any use. Will probably be flying my park flier at my local secret location over the weekend....

[David Jacobs]

Thanks for the offer i'm near Hertford so not so close. Appreciated though. If anyone is interested lots of open space here.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

David - I assume your launching at full throttle? Then it almost certianly will go left - all models do! Its a reaction to the torque of the motor. Two things to try:

1. Put a little right aileron/rudder trim in from the transmitter.

2. Set to full throttle and pause to allow the motor to reach full speed before you launch. If the prop is still spinning up then that will make the torque reaction even stronger.

BEB

[David Jacobs]

Thanks for that and makes a lot of sense i'm actually launching at 60-70% throttle I believe, but to be honest I may well be a little all over the place trying to think of everything!! Though I am certainly NOT launching at full throttle, should I try as you therefore suggest?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Well I have no experience with that specific model - but for hand launching I'd always use 100% power - you need to get flying speed quickly - this is not a time for timidity! Just let it spool up to steady speed and launch more or less level - certainly not nose up! - with firm push - like throwing a dart. Finally be ready on the sticks to correct the pull to the left.

BEB

[David Jacobs]

Thanks for advice on that basis Im going to need to find a bigger field Im in a three acre one right now.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

3 Acres! You could fly that around in a gymnasium! And people do

BEB

[David Jacobs]

Yeah. I'm sure they do. They also know what they're doing! Frankly high walls are less intimidating than tall trees in which to loose £70 worth of new plane. .Cheers anyway.

[Ruprect Spode]

Put your Champ back in it's box until the wind drops. Wind is the killer when learning. You will only get frustrated trying this, that and the other to get airborne and you will only end up smashing your plane and losing interest in model flying. Wait until the tops of the trees are barely moving and you can't feel the wind on your face but can hear it in both ears when you turn around. Where you are flying is surrounded by obstacles which will cause any nice and smooth wind to swirl and eddy thereby throwing your light little plane about uncontrollably until it gets well above the height of largest building/tree upwind of the flying site. Be patient and wait 'til the wind drops, it'll be worth it.

[Sean Hinde]

One thing to try when the wind has died down a bit is to switch the included Tx into low rate mode with a push/click on the right hand stick. You might have already done this, but with mine it made everything a whole lot easier to handle. The red led on the Tx will flash to let you know it has switched mode.

[Turbycat]

Hi David,

I'm in Welwyn Garden City and fly with the Hatfield Model Aero Club. A few guys from Hertford come over to our site to fly. There is a club that flys from the Meads in Hertford. I think they have a facebook page. Your welcome to come over to our patch and have a look at what goes on.

Andy

[Allan Bennett]

The model's spec classifies it as an indoor flyer, though further down it says it can be flown indoors and outdoors. So, as others have said, you need to wait for an almost windless day to test it.

But one thought though ... are the controls working the right way? In other words, when you move the transmitter stick left, does the rudder move left? Quite a few people, experienced flyers included, have complained about a model always going one way on takeoff, only to discover that they were actually steering it further that way when trying to counteract the turn.

[David Jacobs]

Thanks for all your advice, Ive tried it in low mode and yes its a very light & small plane so waiting for a calm day though rather boring is my only option by the sound of it. All controls are also working correctly, the plane was pre assembled from that perspective all looks like it should and setting are at neutral.

Turbycat, THe Hatfield club sounds ideal, do you have any details?

Edited By David Jacobs on 04/05/2013 09:19:30

[Turbycat]

I'll try a link to our web site **LINK** It says no vacancies at the moment but the best thing is to contact Richard. His details are on the contact page. I could get you in a few times as guest. I work shifts so get down to the field quite bit during the week not so much at the weekends. Personally I would be looking at getting a far more substantial trainer. We do have a club trainer, apparently, not sure who's got it at the moment though!

If you fancy a look at the field let me know.

Andy

[WolstonFlyer]

I don't have a Champ but do have the slightly smaller Hobbyzone Micro J3 Cub (my first model plane in fact)

To fly a Champ (or Cub) outside you will need a dead calm day with almost no wind at all. If the leaves on trees are moving it is probably too windy.

Try and find a calm evening (7pm ish) when the wind tends to die down.

Also half throttle should be more than enough for a hand launch or roll off ground with this small model. If you are hand launching at full throttle the left roll will be a result of the motor torque. Try 50% throttle and a level and firm but not too fast hand launch and you should find it much better. You could also try a couple of clicks of right trim on the rudder, my Cub is very sensitive to rudder trim so I imagine the Champ is as well.

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 04/05/2013 23:48:11

[Allan Bennett]

Hmmm ... the Hatfield Club you've linked won't allow me past the "cover" page.

David, the Hatfield club is probably closest for you, but do you know there's also clubs at Baldock and Letchworth, to name but a couple?

[Martin Roberts]

Hi Dave, glad to see another newbie taking the plunge, but it's always better to have an experience pilot with you when starting, believe me I know.... One thing that all aircraft with propellors suffer from is the dreaded torque roll that so of our colleagues have mentioned, this happens when the propellor is still building up speed and as we all know for every action there is the equal and opposite reaction, in other words the motor (which really doesn't care about the air around it) turns (action) and causes the prop to turn, the prop doesn't want to because it has mass and a moment (length) etc... so the prop is causing the reaction which is then countered to some extent by the wings tailplane and fin and rudder, not to mention the mass of the aircraft. The smaller the aircraft, the smaller the mass and flying surfaces, however because the props are relatively small, the rotational speed of the prop has to be increased and therefor the actions are increased while the reactions are decreased...simple really the smaller and lighter the plane, the more susceptable it is to torque roll.

But lets think about the other factors for a minute... the prop is rotating to force air backwards, so if you are sitting in the pilots seat and the prop is turning to your right, the blade is set at an angle (pitch) which is say 25 degrees from perpendicular to the crank this results in air being pushed at an angle to the position of the blade at any given time... therefore when the prop blade is at horizontal to your right side (starboard) the air is being pushed backwards and down at the same time which presents to the top of the wing first and under the wing last creating a lower pressure under the starboard wing. The exact opposite is happening on the port side higher pressure under and lower pressure over, with a result of more lift on the starboard wing and less lift on the port wing, then add the torque roll viola left bank to death.... The faster the prop is turning vs the lighter mass and short wing spells death and yes there are formulae to calculate it... The old timers use slow props speeds and longer wings to resolve the issue, but I would recommend a plane with a longer wing ... motor glider and a qualified pilot coach

Marty - All my planes know where the CoG is, and they head straight for it when I lose control

[Simon Chaddock]

David

Dont forget the simple way to establish if the plane is really turning left is to give it a test glide.

With no power (or even the prop removed) does it still allways want to turn left?

If it glides more or less straight then what you are seeing is the effect of motor torque.

If it glides turning to the left then something about the airframe is wrong.

And dont throw it.

All it needs is a gentle 'launch', at no more than its flying speed (not much over walking pace) on a slightly down ward path.

Its a good idea to launch your Champ like this even when its under power!

[Martin Roberts]

Well said Simon, I completely forgot to mention an unpowered test flight

Marty - All my planes know where the CoG is, and they head straight for it when I lose control

[avtur]

I have many happy and successful hours stick time with one of these wee beasties, without doubt a great starting point providing the limitatioms of such a small and light model are taken into account.

As with other PZ models I have experienced it does fly straight out of the box so success is pretty much guaranteed, however it really does need to be dead calm to achieve this success. I think having the patience to wait for those ideal conditions is the biggest battle.

A hand launch with full power should see it climb positively away from the ground then reduce throttle to achieve level flight, then start trying gentle control inputs. My experience is that its flies very well left to own devices ... and will continue to fly 'inspite' of pilot input ! Providing control inputs are gentle then it is also pretty good at returning to stable level flight when the stick are released.

I'm sure you are very close to success, just remember it needs to be dead calm. Frustration with the weather is part of the territory we have to put up with as model flyers - welcome on board and enjoy the ride !!

[David Jacobs]

Many thanks for all your advice its greatly appreciated and Martins theory behind the proble. I have flown again today, its about 5mph and I had one very good flight, unfortunately despite my largish field, its still FAR too small! I constantly head for the tree line. I'm going to look for a larger field tomorrow. Thanks again for all the input.