Hand Launch Model Advice

[NewBuilderFlyer]

I currently fly a non-brushed SuperCub at the end of the garden and am making moderate progress as a begineer. But the windy weather often thwarts the SuperCub and I need some advice. I can only hand launch from my garden as there is no landing strip apart from a narrow piece of set aside which is too bumpy for any undercarriage. I think I need something a little more powerful and have some choices - I have a Discovery ST and I think I can take off the undercarriage (although I'm not sure how the steerable front wheel is removed), or I could go for a ducted fan single wing design. Or I have a Multiplex Twinstar - yet again non-brushed. I get the impression that a brushed model would be more powerful and allow me to fly in more windy weather.

Any advice gratefully received.

P.S. Flew my Dawn Flyer today (just the flying and not the take-off or landing) in >15mph winds today with a friend at a local flying club and the sheer thrill of building something that actually flew so well without any adjustment was really special. I would go to the flying field more often but the end of the garden is simply more convenient.

[Simon Chaddock]

Hi Newbuildflyer

I am not quite sure I understand what you mean by 'non brushed' as that would imply it is a brushless motor but from your post I think you mean brushed motor.

Brushless motors are generally much more powerful for their weight than the brushed variety and are much more reliable as there is only its ball bearings to wear out and they can last for years.

Flying in your back garden (unless you live in a county mansion!) is going to limit what you can fly. Unfortunately the stronger the wind the faster you have to fly and that tends to need more space and then you have to take into account the effects of turbulence from trees, houses and hedges.

As your models get bigger, heavier and more powerful you may have to get used to visiting (joining?) the local club.

 

Edited By Simon Chaddock on 30/08/2013 17:34:50

[NewBuilderFlyer]

My apologies - the SuperCub and Multiplex Twinstar II are both 'brushed' motors.

My Discovery ST is a 'brushless' type - which seems to have more power.

I was after recommendations for brushless electric models that can be successfully hand launched.

I already belong to a Club (about 25 mins away) but find the end of the garden more convenient.

[Steve Goodwin]

Sounds to me like you are learning the wrong way round, I would take advantage of your club with a proper strip to take off and land.

Most of use newbies can "fly" , a lot of us can't land in one piece, regardless of what model you are trying to fly.

Good luck

[NewBuilderFlyer]

I still do have to land even when hand launching

[Frank Skilbeck]

Generally windy weather models usually mean something with more power and a heavier wing loading, so they usually fly faster and have a higher landing speed. My goto windy weather electrics are my Multiplex Dogfighter or E Flight Habu, the Dogfighter is easy to launch and is is very stable, but pretty quick and very responsive, the Habu being an EDF I don't hand launch.

One option if it's still around could be the Phase 3 Fantom mine was easy to hand launch and flew quite well until one of the elevon servos failed

[scott finnie]

Posted by NewBuilderFlyer on 30/08/2013 20:43:48:

I still do have to land even when hand launching

Hi and welcome to the forum, i personally would recommend the multiplex easystar! Its small, easy to fly and a floater which sounds ideal for you're circumstances. It also has no landing gear, it comes complete with a brushed motor but can easily be converted to Brushless, may i ask how big is you're garden? Are you looking for something you can fly within it or something that will allow you to progress within the hobby,

**LINK**

Happy flying and welcome again to the forum, you will find all you're questions answered here,

Regards,

Scotti

[Ben B]

My britflight hustle happily flies in 15-20mph winds but I have got a more powerful motor fitted with about 18a on a 3s lipo.

[scott finnie]

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 30/08/2013 21:44:07:

Generally windy weather models usually mean something with more power and a heavier wing loading, so they usually fly faster and have a higher landing speed. My goto windy weather electrics are my Multiplex Dogfighter or E Flight Habu, the Dogfighter is easy to launch and is is very stable, but pretty quick and very responsive, the Habu being an EDF I don't hand launch.

One option if it's still around could be the Phase 3 Fantom mine was easy to hand launch and flew quite well until one of the elevon servos failed

Ahh the phase 3 fantom! there have been a few on ebay recently, i have the phase 3 squall too and that flies similar though not as robust as the fantom. The fantom is flat on the bottom that allows it to slide when landing and takeoff from wet grass, the squall however has a large duct that gets battered away every time you land. Ahh the fantom memories

Enjoy

[NewBuilderFlyer]

I should have said that I have several large fields at the bottom of the garden, and with BMFA insurance and agreement from the farmer I fly my SuperCub most evenings. My most embarassing incident was having a battery failure (brand new battery!) and the SuperCub came down gently into the middle of the crop of oil seed rape. It wasn't quite ripe so was fantastically sticky as I waded through waist high through to retreive the undamaged SuperCub. For added support my wife stood in the garden laughing so loudly that she alerted the neighbours who enhanced my shame as I stumbled and vanished into the crop.

I've been looking for a new hand launched model and have seen the Multiplex Easystar, Bixler, or Sonic flying wing to consider.

[crispin church]

what about a zaggi flying wing or a delta

but to take the wind your getting into glow engines ect or big cell count battery

foamie dont take wind well too light

[Rob43]

Hi new model builder
I too started with a hz supercub and I now have a hobbyking axn floater jet. It will handle more wind than the supercub, is much more powerful but at the same time glide around happily on low throttle and it belly lands (comes with no undercarriage) and is quite stable and I found it a good model to learn use of ailerons. It is way more aerobatic than a cub and you can use your cub 3 cell lipos or 3 cell 2200mah lipos (I use both) . Its cheap and easy to put together with lots of you tube help videos. See xjet channel on yt to see the build launch and flight vids. I got mine from the hk uk warehouse delivered in 3 days. If you buy it get the arf with motor version and add a good esc and set of servos. I use mine with a flight stabiliser and this really helps with wind too.
Hope this is useful to you

[NewBuilderFlyer]

Rob43: Thanks for your reply - I've been prowling around the HK website (I live 10 mins away from the UK warehouse) and the choice is a little confusing (although easy to pick for looks alone). Your suggestion looks ideal and I've also seen the new All Terrain Skipper - but as it's so new there is little user feedback yet. The AXN is excellent value for money and I think I'll give it a go - thanks once again for your helpful reply.

[Rob43]

Hi NBF
No probs, glad I could help some, that is one good thing about hk, I too like to read the feedback on the reveiws before buying. Even better value for yourself living so close the the uk warehouse. If you do get it you really need a 30 amp esc and better servos than come with the plug and fly version which is why I recommend choosing the arf with motor version. I use Hobby King 30A ESC 3A UBEC and this works just fine. This has been reported by many that say the pnf version has marginal esc and servos. I would recommend getting a 3mm collet prop mount as it comes with a prop saver. I wasnt keen on hand launching with a spinning prop next to my head that is just held on by a rubber o ring! I also fitted a 6x4 apc prop which many axn owners have done to improve performance but really for me its fine with the original prop. The build instructions that come with it are rubbish and there are really good build instructions by bruce of xjet channel on you tube, he has really good build tips on here. Happy flying

[NewBuilderFlyer]

Rob43 - Just ordered the ARF option with spinner, ESC, servos and a couple of batteries - HK out of stock of a 6 x 4 prop but ebay was the answer. Probably will get mid week and build in the evenings when I get home from work. Hopefully next weekend will be good weather. A couple of evenings ago were so still I managed to get my Night Vapor out - with the lights it is extremely great fun - although it did get acquanited with Mr. Tree, and Mr. Ladder had to come and help. Talking of help thanks for your posts and I'll let you know how I get on.

[Rob43]

Hey NBF
Have you managed to get your axn in the air yet. Let me know how you are getting on with it. Try to stay away from the trees lol.

[NewBuilderFlyer]

Hello - the short answer is 'yes - but I'm not sure I did the right thing as I'm a better plane builder than a pilot'.

Here's the long answer..... (basically I'm a lousy pilot)

The AXN ARF (Almost Ready to Fly into the ground) and ESC, prop thingy, HXT servos, 2 x lipos arrived undamaged from HK. I found the series of three build videos on YT by a most entertaining New Zealand guy and followed everything he said to the letter. The most tricky part was putting the two wings together - by the time I'd used the supplied glue on all surfaces (upper/lower wing, wing joins, wing rod) it had all dried which was not that helpful when I had to slide the wings together (that's the problem with contact adhesive!). I almost broke the wings pushing so hard until I realised that one of the servo leads was in the way. Even though I say so myself (my mother says that self praise is no recommendation) it all ended up pretty good - I even put some tape on the bottom of the plane to stop scuffs. Tested everything and set up my Tx for 30% expo on all surfaces. Used a 6 x 4 prop but didn't balance the motor nor the prop. Noticed that the motor isn't the most refined brushless unit I've ever used! With Lipo all charged and balanced I set off outside for the first test flight. I pretty much know how much shove to give my Super Cub to get it going but I'd read that the AXN was a bit more sensitive regarding hand launching. Someone online suggested that only 40% throttle was required and that a firm horizontal hand launch was required to avoid the nose dipping. So I advanced the throttle to about 50%, launched into the wind just above level only to see the model glide straight into the ground. Did I say 'glide' - I really meant nose dive. Nothing damaged apart from a nagging doubt that I set up something wrong. Back to the workshop (garage) and a thorough examination revealed nothing (I had thought I'd managed to get the prop rotation wrong but that was wrong and I was right - if you see what I mean). Meanwhile my son was having a great laugh saying that 'Daddy has crashed his new plane' - which I thought wasn't exactly what happened. About an hour later I had another go. This time quite a bit more throttle and a hand launch at about 45 degrees (up that is). The little blighter took off with a scream and shot towards the only patch of sky that had full sun. For quite a few seconds I couldn't see it and frankly wondered what to do next. When it did come into view and once the throttle was reduced it was flying level - at least it was well trimmed. I took the first turn and instantly thought I no control - the 30% expo was too much for me. I also managed to forget how to fly and forgot to add any rudder or elevator. Like I'd never flown before. After a few really bad turns I got it together a bit better, took some deep breaths and started to think a bit more about what I was doing. By now I wanted to land as the battery was new and I'd no idea how much had been used - and in the launch panic I forgot to set the Tx timer. First approach was too fast and too high - so was the second and third. Tried again and cut the throttle to let it glide. Boy does it float well in virtually no wind. The result was that it landing along the side of the field as intended but much farther away that I hoped. I can pretty much land the Super Cub where I like along this grass strip. So it was coming to a halt slipping along the grass, not too fast, but the nose hit a bump and it reared up a bit and stopped abruptly. I had survived but the AXN took a bit of damage as the stabiliser tip next to the elevator broke off. Some glue and tape fixed it pretty quickly but showed me that more care was needed especially with the thin foam parts. Later on that day I tried again and although the launch was ok I really didn't feel in control for the first few minutes. Turns were better with 20% expo. I also replaced the 6 x 4 prop with the one in the kit. The landing was similar with a couple of missed approaches and a long glide to the ground. Indeed second time round I really felt that I was struggling as the visibility was getting poor due to fading light (I'm buying some orange tape to put on the wings). I do remember feeling almost like this with the Super Cub and it took a few flights to get to know it. The AXN simply feels too fast and I need to get in control of it quicker after launch. I'm not sure I'm ready for the AXN but unless I get practice I'm not going to improve. My friend (I trust him to fly my 'made from plan planes' tells me that the HK stuff is cheap for a reason and I've probably taken on too much. And yet I read that the AXN is a good beginner plane - which doesn't boost my confidence.

Thanks for taking an interest and I'll persevere.

[NewBuilderFlyer]

Now this is embarrassing - just realised I've put the prop on the wrong way round!

If you get the right way round there's considerably more 'breeze' out the back with the same throttle setting. Haven't flown it yet to see what difference this makes in the sky.

[Rob43]

Hi.
Now thats a good thing. If your prop was on the wring way then you really are going to notice a big improvement! Make sure that when you look at the model from the front that the writing on the prop is facing you?and the the motor is turning anti clockwise. Now it will fly fast and I know that was concerning you but this plane will fly slow, im not really comfortable yet flying fast, im probably at a similar skill level to you by the sounds of it, but when I launch my axn I send it up steep almost on full power but once I have got it up nice and high I level it out and just fly it round nice snd easy probably on less than a third throttle. To help you maybe mix a little up elevator and rudder to your aileron to help it turn. I have it set up like this and programme my tx with the mix switchable on and off on a spare switch. The plane itself is quite stable and will start to self right itself when you let go of the sticks but you need plenty of height of course. You could try a 3 axis gyro with self levelling whilst you are getting used to it. There is a lot of controversy over the use of gyros by flyers at begginer level, some saying how will you learn to fly properly if you are helped electronicly without using your own skills to correct the planes flight. However. . . a gyro will give you confidence knowing you can let go of the sticks and quite quickly the gyro will put the plane level again. The sensitivity on the gyro is adjustable so I just back the gains downs as I get more use to it or switch it off from the tx once I get the plane up sometimes but if I feel im getting in yo bother I know I can just flick the switch on to get the plane level again. It really helps with the wind like you wouldn't believe till you try it.I know there are a lot of hobbyking knockers and I think they have some low quality items but I think if you choose wisely the have some very good products. I converted my super cub to ailerons but as a first aileron plane the axn is much better. I am finding it will turn much nicer using a bit of elevator and adding a bit more power once you get it banked. It does take getting used to hand launching this model for sure but I think again now you have the prop the right way you will be fine. I set the throttle to 50 percent then throw it slightly upwards then once I have hold of the tx agsin hit up elevator and?then all almost all of the power and up she goes! New Zealand bruce does a good yt vid titled how to launch the hk axn. I see what you mean about always coming in to high. The supercub is best flown down on the throttle but the axn wont really even start to sink much till you take all the power off, it really doesnt need much to fly and I get at least 20 mins from a 2200 lipo. Something else I use might help you is one of these small battery alarms you plug in to the balance plugvof your lipo. When one of the cells goes to low voltage an alarm sounds that can be heard from the plane. It will come on before you get to the low voltage cut off on the esc and alows enough time for a couple of approaches. It didn't cost much and is much better than timing your flight and saved me from trouble once when I accidently fitted a discharged lipo and the alarm sounded as it was departing up from the launch so I new right away I had to land it. It also helped to locate it when it went down a valley with the battery getting low. It was out of sight in some foliage but because the alarm was sounding I was able to locate it. I think this scenario may sound familiar to you ha ha. Anyways, let me know how your getting on with it now, I felt a bit out of my comfort zone with this plane at first but i found after a few flights I felt I was flying it way better and that was before I started using a flight stabiliser. Best of luck.

[NewBuilderFlyer]

Prop now definitely the right way round - didn't need to change the motor. The mix sounds like a good idea - I'll look up how to do this in my Spektrum DX7 manual. I've not looked into using a gyro yet - I've used stabilising devices for helicopters and found them useful especially in windy conditions. I've read that the control horns can work loose so added so CA to them just in case.

With the evenings drawing in the flying is left to the weekends - hopefully the weather will be favourable just so I can build my confidence up a little. Thanks for all your help and I'll report back soon with an update. In the meantime I've just had printed plans for my Winter project - a Racing Sparrow yacht - I simply don't have room for another plane but could probably squeeze in a yacht somewhere in the garage. Take care now.....