Young apprentice

[Jamie sawyer]

OK. I am not a beginner and have been flying for 30 years but this post is with regards to joung kids in general. I was out in my garden today and tuning an engine on my plane and as usual there is the normal build up of kids walking but looking over my wall and the normal wow coming out of them. Especially the boys in perticular lol.

What should you look for in a kid as a good candidate for teaching. There is 2 boys that keep showing the interest in my planes. One is about 5 and the other I'd say about 10. I know that 30 years ago I did the exact same and went out to see a guy as he loaded his car for the trip to the air field and he just said. Do you want to tag along and that was me. Ran in, asked mum. She knew him and said off you go if you want.

The bug had bitten me bad by that evening lol. Is there a minimum age to concider ?

Obviously the have to show interest which this 2 have.

Both there parents aren't well off and I'm not sure if I should be encouraging a hobby like this on them as it does carry costs...

Really not sure how to aproach this really. The 10 year old today really did show signs of serious interest and if I offered I think he would come without any hesitation.

Any advice is really apreciated

Jamie

[GrahamC]

Well it's a source or great regret that I need to say this, but the world has changed a great deal in the last 30 years, and the only kind of 'apprentice'  it would be wise to consider is one who comes with a parent or guardian in tow or who is closely related to you.

Those of us who work with children and young people, need to be very careful to observe 'good practice' when working with children and young people.

One practical solution.... What about approaching your local ATC? A couple of our members assist with a model flying programme run by our local group, and all the child protection policies and checks are ialready in place.

Edited By GrahamC on 29/09/2013 23:00:00

[Ernie]

Hi Jamie, Quite a few years ago I had a pretty sad experience with this. As you say, start up an IC motor, and the kids come out of the woodwork. There were a couple of 15 year olds who seemed particularly keen, so I took them along for a wee fly. They were soon getting along fine, so I helped them along with various bits and bobs.

One morning, I found my shed door open, and yes lots of bits were missing. It was all a bit bizarre.. An OS two stroke was gone, but my new laser was intact My top Futaba radio was still on the shelf, but a rather outdated old one was missing. Alas my brand new flair Fokker had vanished, along with all sorts of strange bits. The good stuff had been left. Thoughtfull, yes?

They couldn't of been that bright... one of them was seen in the middle of the night 'carrying a big red aeroplane with black crosses on the wing' They said they found it

It gets worse. The police werent much help, and the insurance company kept making things impossible

I could go on and on

But be warned ernie

[David Davis]

Why not call round and see the parents Jamie?

Our club does not allow junior members, sixteen year-olds or under, to fly unless a parent or "responsible adult" is with them, or unless the club's Child Protection Officer is present.

[John F]

To be honest, these days are a far cry from the "olden times".

If you approach children, no matter how innocently and good natured, the parents might react very badly. It is best to keep kids at arms length, let them coo and dream over your models but, whatever you do, don't go banging on the parents doors or chat to the kids, unless their parents are with them.

Is it overkill? Yes, probably, but the parents are quick to point fingers and label folk so you need to be careful too.

They will get involved if and when their fancy, and pocket money, lets them.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Yes, I am afraid that all this depressing advice is valid. These days if you get a reputation for encouraging young boys to spend time with you some nasty minded individuals will put two and two together and make nine! Sad? Yes, but probably true.

I think the best advice is to follow one of three courses of action below:

1. Do nothing and just carry on as you are.
2. Tell the boys you would be prepared to take them flying - but that they must bring one of their parents with them. You need to be really firm about this - no parent, no trip.
3. Get involved through an organisation that has a well developed and smoothly running child protection policy - Scouts or ATC are two obvious candidates.

I know a couple of Scout masters and they are always looking for new activities. Scouts can get a "modelling" badge I think so its a possible "goer". I would suggest a chat with the local Scout master, you could set up an activity over say 4-6 weeks based around them building models from the BMFA educational programme. The scout group will have funds to purchase the models, you can advise on building and trimming them so they fly OK. You could also take your models along and do a talk one evening and the whole sceme could conclude with an "outing" to see some RC planes flying; perhaps even including "a go" on the buddy box with a trainer.

Just a thought. But I definitely wouldn't just do something on your own - the risk to you of unfounded allegations is just too high I'm afraid.

BEB

[Braddock, VC]

Alex W did a great article regarding this, if I can paraphrase young kids will probably just have a passing interest, when they discover the restrictions then that interest will pass. Far better and safer to wait until their dad (or grandad) displays an interest and take him under your wing.

Sorry but you're really onto a loser there. It's a savage old world out there and very pc.

[Jamie sawyer]

Well I have just read through all your posts and to be honest you are all speaking complete sense and I hadn't even concidered the implications that you have all pointed out. Call me ignorant of nieve maybe but it was a case of re-living my childhood with someone who may have actually held the same interest that I did all those years ago.

The way the world has gone is just terrible really.

I am going to take on all the advice you have given and thankfully I followed my instinct and said nothing to the lad yesterday as it might have just built up his hopes.

The bright side of things is that my circumstances weren't really discribed fully in my origional post. I live in the hights of the highlands right up the top of the UK damb near. The village I live in is tiny with approx 300 people. Most of us know each other and the lad that I had mentioned that is 10 is actually one of my best friends boy. I think I will aproach my friend and mention it to him to see what he thinks and maybe they can all come to the air field when I go next. I'll have a good think about it.

Because of all the stuff you have mentioned and all the risk factors you have to concider it makes it quite difficult for youngsters to get involved. It's very sad really. I'm glad I was born when I was. Learning to fly on that big Ben Buckle Bucaneer was amazing and I loved my trips to the flying field.......some very fond memories indeed

THAT WAS BEFORE COMPUTERS HIT THE MARKET !!!! say no more lol

Thanks everyone

Jamie

[John F]

I don't think it is difficult for youngsters to get involved really, they still ask Mum n Dad for an ARTF at Christmas and by Boxing Day have launched it through their bedroom window to snuggle in next door cats face, it is just the fact that any male who approaches a random kid is no longer deemed to be innocent by the adults; they immediately assume some kind of nefarious meaning.

Kids can still drag parents to air shows etc and, arguably, with the ever increasing presence of ARTF machines, indoor micros, and very cheap quads to be had, the next generation of modellers is probably already hooked in their own bedrooms.

I was at the recent steam rally at Old Warden and saw several kids clutching quads in their mitts with very happy smiles on their faces, no doubt desperate to get home so they can open the box and start flying.

[Codename-John]

Dont you think you`re all taking a very restricted insular view, not everybody expects that just because you innocently befriend somebody elses child you are some kind of paedophile. Or that they will automaticly turn around and accuse you of something or steal from you etc

My son lives with me at weekends as im not with his mother, yet when he`s not here and I see his friends they sometimes come chatting with me walking the dog, doing the garden etc, one came around earlier asking if i could pump his bike tyres up as his mum hasnt got a pump. Theres a bloke that lives around the corner who all the kids love, he comes playing football with them, has a bit of fun etc and everybodys all the better for it.

By completly shutting yourself from interaction with children that can only do more harm as children grow up being intimidated or suspicious of adults.

As you point out, you`re hardly a stranger, Its not as if youve tried to grab these children off the street and bundle them into a van to take them to the flying field, if their parents are firm friends of yours just say theyve shown an interest in a constructive, mostly safe hobby that would get them into the outdoors, teach them skills and discipline, an incentive to save their money for etc, and you wouldnt mind, if theyre ok with it, to teach them. Theyre probably more likely to encounter a pervert online anyway !

No wonder there isnt more kids in the hobby if your all too afraid to even try and encourage them !

Edited By Codename-John on 30/09/2013 21:19:53

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

John, what you say is how we'd all like the world to be - but sadly it isn't like that. I don't think you are looking at this carefully enough and the examples you give really illustrate that.

For example, it is one thing to walk the dog in a public place, in full and constant view, with a child you know. It is quite another to be seen to invite a child you don't know into a private place, where you are not in view and hence have no witnesses, like a workshop etc. unchaperoned.

Now we all know that we're upright decent blokes with no motives other than the totally altruistic ones of sharing the pleasure we get from model aircraft with a younster. But consider this; we befriend a youngster, take him into the workshop and show him how model aeroplanes are made, perhaps with a view to helping him make one for himself. But now suppose he does something daft - fooling around, maybe he does something that could have resulted in him hurting himself, so we tell him off a little bit - to impress on him that we have to be careful sometimes. Now suppose that leads to a "falling out" between us - cross words are exchanged. What if that youngster - to get even with us - then makes a totally untrue allegation about us? We were alone with him,...its his word agianst ours. Where do you think that leaves us?

I have teenage kids - often I have to give their friends a lift home - but never, ever, alone. I always make sure that if I'm going to end up with one last kid to drop off, then my daughter (or another adult) is with me as well.

Yes, its sad. Yes I wish the world wasn't like that. But I'm prepared to bet that at least some of those people accused of assulting children are innocent victims of a culture that is too prepared to think the worst of people. I don't want to be one of them.

BEB

[Codename-John]

The op was about taking him to the flying field to experience flying to see if he was interested and would like to persue it further, where i imagine there would be other people present,

Im sure we`re all aware of the recent case of that bloke off that soap, but how many million children are there in the country, compared to one or two cases you may hear about something negative, who might love to be offered something to enjoy but dont because people are scared

Im not suggesting he invites the lad unaccompanied into his house / workshop alone for hours on end, for one we all know the dangers of the tools we use but a child does not and accidents do happen but to quote some of the posts above

"It is best to keep kids at arms length, let them coo and dream over your models but, whatever you do, don't go banging on the parents doors or chat to the kids, unless their parents are with them."

" Far better and safer to wait until their dad (or grandad) displays an interest and take him under your wing"

" it is just the fact that any male who approaches a random kid is no longer deemed to be innocent by the adults; they immediately assume some kind of nefarious meaning."

is it any suprise that people may think you a bit strange if you wont even speak to somebody for fear of reprisal, Id rather somebody knock on my door and ask if i minded what my child was upto than people be too scared to even speak to him, and he was treated like some kind of court apperance waiting to happen,

I regularly get kids when im flying foamies on the school fields come over and show an interest and not once have i had any negative experience. Even if nothing comes of it due to factors of cost , time etc the seed of the hobby may get planted in their head, and one day when theyre older perhaps they will remember the kind old bloke they knew as a child who flew and had time for them, rather the grumpy old beggar who lived down the road and wouldnt help anybody

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Those are very fair points John - like you I wouldn't send Kids away or "keep them at arms length" - but I do structure how I meet them - in a very friendly and approachable way of course

BEB

[Jamie sawyer]

The trip to the flying field is a 15 minute drive so I would be alone just for that time with him but at the flying field it is a very public place with dog walkers and full size aircraft coming in and out 3 or 4 times a day on average. There is a golf driving range just 100 yards away to so its quite busy.

I agree with the care that has to be taken and its not just in this kind of thing. Where I live and while my girls are staying with me ( There 6 and 8 years old ) I have kids coming in and out of my house all weekend and I have to just stay busy doing stuff due to the loss of peace lol. Every one really trusts each other here and its a far different place and outlook up here compared to down south in England or even Southern Scotland. It was just 2 or 3 weeks ago my 2 girls went for a 1 hour walk with my girlfriends cousing and her daughter. I must admit after a n hour I was starting to get a wee bit anxious but it was all fine and they came back telling me all about there walk and what they had seen. It all comes down to trust and how much you know that perticular person. The parent has an obligation to look after there children and as long as the boundaries are set by each parent before things should be ok but there is that sad occasion where there is a problem.

I will consider my options and discuss it with the other parent. I will reserve my judgment untill I read the parents body language and reaction. The boy may not even come through for all I know but it is a possible turning point in his life that may change his life ......you just never know. When your a kid some memories just stick in your head and are very good memories.

Jamie