Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I have a Concorde story for you CSB - you may well know this, but worth recollecting I think. There was a time that NATO was becoming seriously concerned that the Soviets might develop a supersonic intercontinental bomber. They wanted to know if the current crop of high-speed, high-altitude fighters would be able to intercept such a bomber - particularly with a stern conversion interception, the most difficult of all. The problem was - no one had a "target plane" to act the part of the Soviet bomber. Well eventually they hit on the idea of using a Concorde, so got in touch with BA and duely hired the use of one for the exercise. The Americans tried with the F-14 (Tomcat), the F-15 (Eagle), the F16 (Falcon) and the F104 (Starfighter). But none of them could reel-in the airliner (embarassing or what! ). It gets better - the French tried with the Mirage - but that couldn't catch Concorde either! (Oh deep joy! ) Only one fighter did it, out all those that tried. Which one? The BAC Lightning! Another product of British Aero-Engineering, by then an old lady of over 20 years use. I can tell you, that was a very good day to be a British engineer!! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 A very detailed technical review of Concorde's development highlighted some of the underlying issues that probably meant Concorde was always going to be a one off. Basically Concorde was too small. A situation brought about by the limitations of having to use the Olympus 593 (courtesy of the 320 from TSR2!). The cost to develop a new bigger engine was prohibitive. The result was that Concorde was only just a transatlantic aircraft. Rolls did a wonderful job to extract the maximum possible thrust but it took time and meant the Olympus was virtually at the end of its development potential even as Concorde went into service. From then on any addition to the airframe had to be offset by a saving made else where. Hence the use of lightweight carbon fibre lightweight passenger seats to offset the weight of the fuel tank protection in the post crash upgrade. There were aerodynamic improvements. Production Concordes had modified wing leading edges to reduce drag (the result of wind tunnel information not available during the initial design) but then they were also longer and heavier. I am not knocking Concorde but there were many issues beyond economics that limited its future. It does however remain as one of the most striking planes ever built. It has been said that to get a supersonic airliner into commercial passenger service was a big a technical achievement as putting a man on the moon - but then no one has done that again either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Carr Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 26/11/2013 22:11:37: I have a Concorde story for you CSB - you may well know this, but worth recollecting I think. There was a time that NATO was becoming seriously concerned that the Soviets might develop a supersonic intercontinental bomber. They wanted to know if the current crop of high-speed, high-altitude fighters would be able to intercept such a bomber - particularly with a stern conversion interception, the most difficult of all. The problem was - no one had a "target plane" to act the part of the Soviet bomber. Well eventually they hit on the idea of using a Concorde, so got in touch with BA and duely hired the use of one for the exercise. The Americans tried with the F-14 (Tomcat), the F-15 (Eagle), the F16 (Falcon) and the F104 (Starfighter). But none of them could reel-in the airliner (embarassing or what! ). It gets better - the French tried with the Mirage - but that couldn't catch Concorde either! (Oh deep joy! ) Only one fighter did it, out all those that tried. Which one? The BAC Lightning! Another product of British Aero-Engineering, by then an old lady of over 20 years use. I can tell you, that was a very good day to be a British engineer!! BEB Thanks for sharing that one Dave. Like you say British engineering or what The recent bbc series "cold war hot jets" has really made me realise how easy it is to forget what we achieved. Craig Edited By Craig Carr on 26/11/2013 23:56:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Richardson Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I wonder if **LINK** would have caught Concorde had it not been so quickly discarded. Ahead of it's time I think and could have put Canada at the forefront of aviation development at that point in history. Edited By Tony Richardson on 27/11/2013 02:07:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I was not going to post this picture as it is technically very poor. But here goes anyway. A panorama shot. 5 images painstakingly stitched together. Taken earlier this month at The Fleet Air Arm Museum. Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Richardson Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Beautiful aircraft, thanks for the pics CSB and others, wonder if we will ever see the likes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Best thread i have ever read, brilliant stuff and absolutely riveting. Thank you so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I watched the whole story again on cable TV last night which included all the theories as to why the French Concorde crashed. Discussed were the issues of over-filled fuel tanks, over weight by 1 ton (unrecorded prior to take-off), omission of spacer on undercarriage which caused the take off path to veer and possible damage to tyre(s) plus the issue regarding metal debris left by the DC10 which damaged a tyre. There was a claim by a fireman that the plane was on-fire prior to hitting the metal debris. I was not aware that the modifications to the fuel tanks including the installation of bullet proof Kevlar was recommended prior to the crash. I was also not aware that the passenger levels on the French Concordes following 7/11 and the tank and tyre upgrades had reduced to only five or six. Also it would seem during this period another French Concorde was nearly lost after an engine failed and the plane lost an extensive amount of fuel and only just managed to land I think in British Columbia? The final flights of the planes were of course covered, and a senior pilot who left Heathrow last on the day said he looked around himself and saw five airworthy Concordes that were being scrapped and what a waste! I hope I have not repeated much that has already been stated on this blog! MJE Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 28/11/2013 16:00:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 There is a 45th anniversary celebration of the first Concorde flight at Brooklands next week on the 2nd of February as advertised on the Brooklands website. Brooklands is easy to get to by rail and bus, and apart from the museum there is free entry to Mercedes World which has a huge hotel adjacent. I have attached some Concorde pictures from last week plus a VC10,the last plane to land at Brooklands: MJE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ady Hayward Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hi CS. I don't know if you have seen this, but is newly released: **LINK** It is called Speedbird but its obvious what it is modelled upon. Best regards Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFlyer Smyth Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 CS has Allegedly left the room Ady, Who knows ? He may be back ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ady Hayward Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Many thanks for the update. Just a tad too late it seems. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 This one is still in my bookmarks so it emails me, thanks for showing me Ady, I love Concorde stuff and that is lovely! CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian101 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 A fantastic thread. Here are a few sad photos (not very good quality) of G-BOAA that were taken on 2 measuring-up trips to Heathrow where she was ruthlessly cut to pieces. We made the 2 cradles which supported her during transportation to Scotland. An amazing piece of engineering. Fascinating to be able to look inside the wing sections at the construction, but I couldn't find any better pictures........it was a long time ago! I made a lovely keyring from a Concorde bolt I acquired as a cherished momento. Regards Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Dear CS ,If you're still on the line .... something for you... **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Warning: Over opinionated rant below! Airbus are so irritating! This is Concorde F-WTSB that is going in a new museum in Toulouse, but Airbus are advertising it as having the registration MSN-1! Airbus give their aircraft registrations beginning with MSN, and they've done it to Concorde which I do not like at all! I like that they are looking after it but it is almost as if they are trying to take credit for something made before Airbus existed, just because it is famous. And I don't like the colour scheme, I like the BAC and Aerospatiale logos but the writing on the tail is a horrible font and it is just bland, hopefully they change it. In my opinion, I should be given this airframe and a few hundred million pounds and manufacturer support to show them right! Rant over! CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hello, Today I went to Filton for an apprenticeship assessment day, the birthplace of Concorde in the UK. A milestone for me was that I saw Concorde G-BOAF! I have a poster of this aeroplane on my bedroom wall! It is the third Concorde airframe I have seen and the first production one for me. She is beautiful, but it is sad to see her sitting outside alone. There is a museum that will be built for her though.CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Tarling Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 They have been promising to put G-BOAF under cover since it landed there over 11 years ago. It's almost criminal to be leaving it outside to rot. CS - good luck with the apprenticeship! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 I have sent you a private message Gordon. Thank you for the good wishes, I have applied for several apprenticeships at various aerospace engineering companies. The interviews and assessment days are quite stressful but good experiences. CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolm woodcock 1 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 When I was at RAF Upavon we had some administrative duties for Filton and Fairford. Used to watch them engine testing, for Concorde, at Boscombe Down. Good luck with the apprenticeship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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