76" Depron Vickers Valiant

[Foamie Dave]

Coming along mighty fine

[Ian101]

Wow Daz.

They have turned out extremely good.

Ian

[Depron Daz]

Yay! My ESC's finally arrived today. I've gone the El-Cheapo route, and bought 2 x HK 50 amp OPTO ESCs, along with a 5 amp SBEC. The ESC's have a good sized red anodised aluminium heat sync on the rear but to get the maximum benefit of this I will be removing the heat shrink that covers the edges, as this will aid cooling.

I will be fitting the ESC's either side of the fuz just underneath the wing roots, with the heat syncs slightly proud of the fuz skin so air will defo pass through the fins. I don't actually think that these will ever get warm, as the motors I have are 35-30's @1450Kvs running at max 38 amps with 560w each on 4s. I will be using a 4s, but with both of these motors pushing what will hopefully be around 5lb, that'll be circa 200w/lb. Umm, probably a bit too much? I can foresee cruising well below half throttle, so fingers crossed for long flights. I will see how they go, and I may replace the motor currently in my Vulcan with one of these so that I can run 4s instead of 3s.

Getting back to the build, I'm afraid I didn't get as much done as I would've liked last weekend, however I have cut out my wing plates, which leaves me with printing out the ribs and cutting them out, and building up the wing, including fitting the 6mm carbon rods that will attach inside the fuz. I will also run all of my wiring for the ESC's, motors and servos ready for skinning.

[Matt Jones]

You know, the only depron models I'd seen until recently were shock flyers or badly hashed together scratch builds so I have to confess I'd written Depron off as a 'proper' building material however seeing what you and Roy are doing has converted me. Great work.

[Roy Mundy]

Really great work Daz, I am really enjoying this build and Roy's build. I haven't seen such good building in Depron since Glenn Moore and that was ages ago, now your like buses 2 come along at once. It's really great to see what can be done with this under estimated material, you have inspired me and many others.

The thing I like about depron is the building cost, if you was to build a model like that in balsa it would cost a fortune and the finish is amazing. Well done.

[Depron Daz]

Hi Matt and Roy M.

Thanks for the kind words. Roy has built more than I, but I'm surprised at my results so far.

The cost is greatly less than balsa, and the ability to build large and still be lightweight, means smaller and cheaper motors etc. And that is what I like!

Regards

Edited By Depron Daz 393 on 02/11/2013 22:49:19

[Electriflier]

Gentlemen, my two pennarth for what it's worth

its subjective. I have many customers who just cannot get on with depron and insist that 'real' models are built in balsa. Personally, after many years of subscribing to the very same point of view, realise, as you all agree, that it's a fantastic alternative. That's just what it is- an alternative building material. One of its greatest qualities in my opinion is the absence of dust that accompanies any balsa build. I have turned full circle over the past 4 years and now will only build in depron. It's as I say, a personal choice that I would never ram down anyone's throat but would highly recommend to anyone who asks........

And Daz, you shouldn't be surprised at your results. It's plain to see that you have a natural flair for building.

regards Roy

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Fascinating build Daz. I'm not a Depron user my self but its always interesting to see someone who uses the material so well. Great stuff.

BTW - B&Q do a good range of masks. They do a twin filter job that would be good for you for only £15. Much cheaper than a new pair of lungs!

Following with interest - I like the Valiant - dare I say,...I think it much more attractive than the Vulcan! Opps! Better make myself scarce!

BEB

[Depron Daz]

Hi BEB.

Yes, I must get a mask, keep telling myself, but never do.

I like the Vulcan purely for the graceful way in which the real one flies, and the majestic shape she has in the air, ohh and plus that HOWL! Unfortunately mine doesn't howl but I can imagine........

If the Valiant flies as well as the Vulcan, then I'll be equally as pleased to have created the model. I know Depron isn't for everyone, but as Roy H says, it's an alternative. Foam models have been around for a while, and although I wasn't into RC planes at that time, I can imagine that they weren't very popular with the traditional builders, but they seem to have been accepted over the years, and without wanting to start a debate on a build blog, I think they'll start to get more and more the norm as years pass on. At the very least it seems that it is the starting platform for any new flyer nowadays.

I too recommend the building material and will happily assist/advise accordingly. If you don't like depron then that is fine, I have no issues whatsoever with that, we all have our choices and preferences, but if you were thinking of trying it out, then go for it!

[Depron Daz]

Well I didn't get anywhere near as much done as I wanted to today. All I managed to do was to site the ESC's and soldered on extensions to the motors and the battery box. I also ran the servo lead extensions for all servos, and extended the Rx satellite lead to the tail. I also fitted the Rx into the top section, and need to make a hatch for it now. And that is the grand sum of today's work, not much, but at least its out of the way, and now I can move onto the wings and fuz skinning.

I won't post any pics because we all know what wires look like, lol.

Regards

[Lindsay Todd]

Stunning job, Daz, never tried working with Depron, I suspect you are making it look far easier than it is. Linds

[Depron Daz]

Hi Lnds, and thank you

Honestly, it's easier to work with than balsa, but so much quicker (and cheaper). This is only my third ever depron build which includes a Spitfire **LINK** and my Vulcan (as shown on page 1 of this blog). I've made a couple of flat shockie types and even a biplane but they took me all of about 2 hours each, so I never include them in my grand total of depron builds as I don't class them as full fuselage planes.

I love balsa planes, but this depron is much much easier. You just have to be careful not to damage the skin unless you use glass cloth and resin, or what I'll be doing is using water based polyurethane (WBPU) before spraying with white acrylic car paint. The Vulcan was just painted with white emulsion and then sprayed with car paint, but the emulsion is mega heavy, and I think I can get better protection at less weight using light glass cloth and WBPU.

My next build is a large'ish FW190, at around 5 or 6 feet W/S. I reckon I could get that completed with an AUW of around 1.5 - 2kg

Kind regards

[Depron Daz]

OK guys, I'm after some feedback on this next part.

I've been thinking about putting wheels on this model, but not as retracts. The idea I have is to fit two wheels along the keel, one fore and one aft, and then fit 2 smaller wheels one in each drop tank. The idea being for when landing. The model will remain either a bungee or a hand launch, but rather than land and slide along on the fuz, I thought about the wheels.

The main wheels will only stick out the bottom of the fuz by about an inch, and the tank wheels by probably less than 1/2 inch.

Has anyone else done this, and what was the outcome?

Kind regards

Daz

[Tony Bennett]

like a set of glider wheels you mean.

that would work well.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

As Tony says - it works for gliders. But of course they usually only have one!

One issue would be they would only come into contact on landing if you landed dead level - not likley. The one at the rear could be fairly far back so as to allow a flair I guess?

BEB

[Electriflier]

Evening Daz, it's crossed my mind in the past but I came to realise that for the wheels to operate efficiently, the grass strip will have to be reasonably smooth. If your strip is that smooth (as is ours), then normal belly landings are unlikely to cause any damage to the model. Although our field is generally smooth, I usually cover the areas of the model that are likely to touch the deck with clear vinyl. It's a self-adhesive film used in the vinyl sign writing industry. Warmed with a normal hair drier, it conforms to practically any shape if care is taken.

If it is you decide against the wheel idea and I can be of any assistance with regards to sorting a few bits of vinyl for you, let me know? Regards Roy

[Depron Daz]

Thanks Tony and BEB.

The tail section has quite an angle to it, and the rear wheel will be almost at the furthest point of the flat mid section, so mild flairs will be possible.

My Vulcan is a belly lander, and my main issue with that is that it is only covered in emulsion paint over the Depron skin, and even after a few landings I have noticed bumps and scrapes along the belly.

The tanks wheels will not touch the ground until the speed is slow enough for the plane to drop either wing, and then it will only be about an inch or so. I'll see how the build goes, and will report back on this one.

Thanks guys

Daz

EDIT: Just seen your post Roy, you were obviously typing quicker than I! Our patch is fairly smooth, and now that we have a regular groundsman it seems to be better each time. Without spoiling your Vixen build, have you started on the drop tank securing system yet, as you described in your drawing to me?

Edited By Depron Daz 393 on 04/11/2013 23:38:34

[Roy Mundy]

How about a couple of thin hard wood skids, would that help, they wouldn't notice and would certainly prevent grass rash!

Regards Roy

[Depron Daz]

That is another possibility Roy.

Thanks, I'll bear it in mind. How's the Curtis coming along, sorry I mean the utility room of course

[David Tweddle]

Posted by Depron Daz 393 on 03/11/2013 11:16:58:

but as Roy H says, it's an alternative. Foam models have been around for a while, but they seem to have been accepted over the years, and without wanting to start a debate on a build blog,

Ok Ok, I confess.

I started with paper, keeping an eye on the cardboard ones I have seen though.

As for depron I think a mixed box will help me to decide for myself.

Daz,.. Magic mate, keep them coming. Sorry to hijack your build.

David

[Toni Reynaud]

I've been thinking about putting wheels. The main wheels will only stick out the bottom of the fuz by about an inch, and the tank wheels by probably less than 1/2 inch.

Has anyone else done this, and what was the outcome?

I think this has been done on a Short Sunderland flying boat or something similar. I saw it flying at Bickley two or three years ago. No problem - it woirked well. I've no idea whose it was.

Keep up the good work!

[Roy Mundy]

No movement on the Curtiss yet Daz, but all my base units are fitted and I had to re route the washing machine waste, which was a pain . skirting boards today. Hopefully if I'm not whacked out I may get a chance tonight.

Keep up the good work buddy

[GrahamC]

Posted by Depron Daz 393 on 04/11/2013 23:00:27:

OK guys, I'm after some feedback on this next part.

I've been thinking about putting wheels on this model, but not as retracts. The idea I have is to fit two wheels along the keel, one fore and one aft, and then fit 2 smaller wheels one in each drop tank. The idea being for when landing. The model will remain either a bungee or a hand launch, but rather than land and slide along on the fuz, I thought about the wheels.

The main wheels will only stick out the bottom of the fuz by about an inch, and the tank wheels by probably less than 1/2 inch.

Has anyone else done this, and what was the outcome?

Kind regards

Daz

Daz. I've built a few smaller full fuselage models from Depron, but nothing [yet] at the scale that you are building. I've also used Depron and XPS components in more traditional builds.

For what its worth here are my thoughts on the belly wheels question.

Wheels like the ones you describe certainly work on gliders as other forum have pointed out. However the gliders in question tend to be made from fiberglass or wood. I think that in your case, there is a question as to whether the apertures to contain the wheels might do more to compromise the longevity of the airframe than protect it. Depron by nature has soft edges, and I think you might find it difficult to prevent a landing run chewing the edges. [I'm always astonished how much damage grass does to fibreglass spats] I guess you could frame the apertures with ply?

I'm planning a large depron build myself at the moment, and I think that I will consider just applying glass cloth to the belly with water based varnish. If you were to use 25g / 0.6oz cloth, the weight penalty would be minimal... but it would toughen up the base enormously. Glassing with water based varnish is very easy and very light indeed... I'd be surprised if you added 25g over all. By the time you have added wheels, mounts for wheels and supports for the mounts, I think you would be well over that!

The one other possibility... What about using a pair of glider retracts and getting the wheels clear of the airframe. Something like a pair of these fore and aft.. although these are heavy. Or even a pair of these fore and aft might work?

[Depron Daz]

Thanks so far guys.

Roy M, you work quick mate! Lol, waste pipes are always a pain, especially matching old waste to new. I've fitted several kitchens and bathrooms for family and friends over the years, and this area is the one that always trips you up. Sometimes it's easier just replacing all of it if you can get to it, and just use one size. I've got a few jobs in here that need doing, but there's always something much more exciting to do than DIY, like building foam planes!

I'm sure you'll get some time to play. Are you off this week to do DIY?

Graham, (Plan A) originally it was just going to be a belly lander with a slightly heavier glass cloth on the belly and several extra coats of WBPU, but then I thought about the wheels. I have 2 x 70mm plastic hub wheels for the fore and aft fuz, and 2 x 30mm slim plastic hub wheels for the tanks. Along the keel bottom I have already fitted 2 x 1/2" x 1/4" balsa strips for helping strengthen the fuz up for the belly landings (should be able to see these in the above photos), and above this where the wheels will be sited, I have glued on some 3mm lite-ply either side on the depron, which will be where the wheel axles will pass through, so it will have plenty of strength with as minimal weight as possible.

I understand what you say about apertures, and plan to keep these as tight to the wheels as possible, to avoid the possibility of damage. I don't plan on the model rolling on ground too long at all, because these models are so light they tend to land slowly and stop quickly.

I'll see how to put it all together as best as possible, and if it adds too much weight I can always pull them out and continue with plan A. So far the only extra weight which I wouldn't be able to remove would be the lite-ply plates I glued on.

I love the look of the first link you posted, looks nicely engineered and "blingy", but at 100g x 2 I think it would be too much.

Daz

[GrahamC]

I had one more idea in my idle moments... what about a single cheap and cheerful electric retract [The HK ones are surprisingly good] on the centre line, a little in front of the CofG with a double wheel bogey.. folding forwards. You could get away with a very short leg... Sort of like the main gear on a U2! [But without the Corvette!]