Quadcopters etc

[kiwi g]

Ive just been messing around with my quad copter . I am no expert on these but do have a degree of success with it .

I am struggling to really see what the real attraction to flying these machines is . A plane its not , a helicopter it certainly isnt .

Are quad copters etc a passing fad or is it more the use of fpv and photography thats the attraction .

Your thoughts .

Kiwi g

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Hello Kiwi g , certainly it is an extraordinary step , or rather a new way of flying ,for me of course...I'm old fashioned

model-flyer.I had to adopt some new knowledge of electronics but thanks to Mr Tim Mackay, I accepted,at first E-drive than quad- technique.....and I discovered the charm of the long winters days...

Cheers

Joe

[scott cuppello]

Traditionally you have to learn to fly an RC heli or model aeroplane and it is a long and sometimes expensive process that requires dedication, the RC Industry is trying to expand the appeal and therefore customer base of RC flying by inventing shortcuts to this process, Multi-Rotors (aside from Commercial/Industrial rig's, which are a totally different kettle of fish) are part of this strategy.........as are stabilization systems, etc.

I think an experienced RC pilot would stuggle to get much out of a multi-rotor on it's own, it's the aerial photography and FPV aspect that we find appealing, although there are different configurations (like tri's for instance) that can expand the appeal from a flying point of view.

Edited By scott cuppello on 21/10/2013 12:04:57

Edited By scott cuppello on 21/10/2013 12:08:03

[Tony Read 2]

Hi Scott! Great to see you back!!!

There is a quad/multi to suit most folks, from uber stable camera platforms to mega fast and aerobatic.types.

To see aeros (flips, rolls and loops etc) flown well without the use of a 'cheat' button on the Tx is a joy. There are lots of vids of such flying on YT, Christopher Telford is one such chap, check out his channel here

[Chris Jones 7]

Hi Kiwi,

I fly planes and have dabbled in helicopters but nothing really floated my boat till I bought a quadcopter.

i agree that getting into the air with a quad is a lot easier than with a plane or Heli but as Scott said a well flown quad is a joy to behold. I was inspired by a bunch of guys from the Open Pilot program while at the RC Hotel, one of them was awesome both LOS and FPV with a quad and on my return to the UK I have set about learning aerobatics and FPV. I'm also completely hooked on multirotors and am looking forward to the arrival of a waterproof frame, a tricopter and ultimately a Hex. All my multis are using a KK2 board and so have to be flown all the time with no altitude hold or GPS. For the future there are reversible ESCs becoming available for true 3D flight.

I think that similar to planes and helis multirotors can offer something for everyone, you just have to find it.

anyway in a shameless plug for more viewings here's a bit of my F330 in action!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtj7CjDrCmk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Chris

[Tony Read 2]

Chris,

Your link did not work for me but here is the vid-

Great flying!!! What settings do you use on the KK2 when you are doing aeros?

[Chris Jones 7]

Thanks Tony, I haven't got round to learning the intricacies of this forum yet - its all a little away from the norm!

The F330 KK2 board is running V1.6 software and is currently flying on all stock PID settings although yaw could do with a little tweak. I run 100% rates on a DX8 with 25% Expo, stick scaling on the KK2 was set to 105 for the flying on the video although I have since gone up to 115 to make flips and rolls a little snappier. I'm trying to learn a full rubix and keep running out of height after the first flip and roll.

Chris

[Tony Read 2]

Thanks Chris,

I was talking to a guy at the HK fly-in earlier this year, he was flying stunts using a KK2, and I'm sure he said that his was in self level mode when doing so. Do you have self level on or off? He did a fantastic elongated/oval loop, with the quad upside down for quite a while. I have no idea how he did it.

[Chris Jones 7]

As far as I am aware the KK2 boards accelerometers cant deal with high rate flips and rolls and end up doing funny things when in self levelling if you exceed their limits. I only ever use self levelling for FPV stuff and even then I tame it down a bit.

I can loop and sideways loop my F330 now and as far as I can make out it is all down to initial acceleration into the loop and then a reduction of power as you go over the top. The timing is a little different to a plane as you don't start with the aircraft level, it's in a significant nose down attitude and only becomes level again just after the first quarter of the loop is complete. Momentum enables better hang time and you have to be gentle on the controls or as you "pull" over the top the quad will flip rather than loop. I think I use about 1/3 to half throw. Then it's just waiting for it to get back to the start attitude and increasing power as you approach it.

Ping Pongs are next - full speed pass, a forward flip to a reverse high speed pass then a reverse flip to a forward pass etc etc - I'll be buggered if I can keep the altitude constant!

Chris

Edited By Chris Jones 7 on 23/10/2013 13:18:27

[Tony Read 2]

I think you have just talked yourself into posting an article entitled 'How to fly quad aerobatics, by Chris Jones'.

[Shaunie]

It's FPV that's the attraction for me.

I'm a member of a Search and Rescue team (KSAR) as well as a modeller. We are just sorting out funding to build a multicopter (possibly a DJI F550) so we can put eyes-in-the-sky for searching difficult areas, ultimately with thermal imaging. This lets me join both of my out of worktime activities together.

So aeros are the last thing I am after, the best stability I can achieve and a long flight time is what I am looking for.

Shaunie..

[kiwi g]

Great to see the ideas coming out here..

My first attraction to a quad was for a fpv base as the quad as a camera platform seemed the best way to go .

However going from gliders to planes , then on to helis apart from the electronics side the quad to fly did seem a bit of a step backwards.. Challenge wise . The biggest issue I had at the start was directional , after all its a quad .and after one or two bad starts with gyros and bad boards I got it to settle into hover and directional flight .The real challenge coming from electronics and radio setup ... the flight part seemed too easy. so I guess that's why I was wondering if they were going to be a passing fad ..

On another point .. its interesting the aviation industry hasn't taken up on quads with full size people carriers .. maybe they have , any pics out there..

Cheers for all the replys

KIWI G

[Chris Jones 7]

Posted by Tony Read 2 on 23/10/2013 13:25:27:

I think you have just talked yourself into posting an article entitled 'How to fly quad aerobatics, by Chris Jones'.

LOL To be honest, when I was looking at how to get started I did think that I wished someone had done a series similar to Bonedocs 3D tutorials but for Multirotor.

I do know however that I am probably not experianced enough/. Good enough to be the one to do it. But thank you.

[Chris Jones 7]

Posted by Shaunie on 23/10/2013 20:31:10:

It's FPV that's the attraction for me.

I'm a member of a Search and Rescue team (KSAR) as well as a modeller. We are just sorting out funding to build a multicopter (possibly a DJI F550) so we can put eyes-in-the-sky for searching difficult areas, ultimately with thermal imaging. This lets me join both of my out of worktime activities together.

So aeros are the last thing I am after, the best stability I can achieve and a long flight time is what I am looking for.

Shaunie..

Hi Shaunie,

I too am interested in this and having been approached by my local SAR team with reference to working SAR dogs I have considered offering an aerial platform for their use. Please start a thread and let us know how your proceeding with this, I for one would be very interested.

Chris

 

Edited By Chris Jones 7 on 24/10/2013 07:30:43

[scott cuppello]

I have been doing some work in this area......thermal imaging is the biggest headache really in terms of cost and the hand held units are still not that light, you would need a decent size rig to cope with the extra weight.

I came to the conclusion that you also need fixed wing for Search & Rescue as their flight duration and payload capability is vastly superior, multi-rotors offer superb video platforms but will always be severely limited by duration for lot's of tasks.......my fixed wing platforms can fly for up to two hours which I think speaks for itself.

[Chris Jones 7]

Hi Scott,

Two hours!? Care to share your set up?

Only problem with fixed wing is that for SAR you might/ probably would be asked to fly from some pretty inhospitable areas where take off and landing could be a problem. Two hours duration would be a game changer as a 10/15 min flight to the search area would still give a decent search duration.

Of course the trouble is that ideally you'd want both platforms to cover all the bases. Then given the "must go" nature of the task your gonna need a replacement airframe for when the first goes tits up! Two quads, two fixed wing, and a multitude of receivers transmitters, batteries etc gets expensive real quick!

[Tony Read 2]

I do know however that I am probably not experienced enough/. Good enough to be the one to do it. But thank you.

Don't sell yourself short. I still reckon 'Fly Quads The Chris Jones Way' is a great idea. LOL

FPV SAR sounds a great idea, but surely you would be grounded if the ASR /police/coast guard etc helicopters are in the area?

[scott cuppello]

There are several airframes out there capable of carrying huge payloads (up to 20,000mAh 4s + FPV equipment) which are specifically designed for the job......launching wise I use a portable bungee/ramp for some aircraft, others can be hand launched, what is certain is that they ALL have to be modified to carry out a certain task.

For the task you are talking about, you might be suprised what can be achieved with something like the FPV Raptor (take it from me, MUCH better than the Bixler) fitted with a Flight Stabilization System (which needs careful setting up)....I have one with a similar set up, it can carry a basic FPV set up (camera on pan/tilt, TX and OSD) and 3300mAh 3s packs with no issues at all. With this set up I can stay airborne for 40 minutes and still land with 30% left in the pack on a windy day (Getting the glide set up right combined with the stabilizer and flap system is the key) it is stable even in windy conditions (probably maxing out at 20mph) and can obviously be hand-launched and landed almost anywhere (very tough blow-molded plastic fus)....and mine is only the 1600mm version, the 2 metre version would be even more capable.

I suspect you are right, both fixed wing and multi-rotor would provide the best all round set up and it's suprising how cheaply it can be done.

[scott finnie]

The use of the stability of a quad compared to other helicopters is very usefull in exciting photo and video opportunitys as this link shows

**LINK**

[Shaunie]

Hi Guys,

To all of you interested in multicopters for SAR work I am just off to start a thread entitled SAR multicopters. Will post a link across in due course.

Shaunie.

[Simon Chambers]

Posted by scott cuppello on 24/10/2013 14:08:55:

There are several airframes out there capable of carrying huge payloads (up to 20,000mAh 4s + FPV equipment) which are specifically designed for the job......launching wise I use a portable bungee/ramp for some aircraft, others can be hand launched, what is certain is that they ALL have to be modified to carry out a certain task.

For the task you are talking about, you might be suprised what can be achieved with something like the FPV Raptor (take it from me, MUCH better than the Bixler) fitted with a Flight Stabilization System (which needs careful setting up)....I have one with a similar set up, it can carry a basic FPV set up (camera on pan/tilt, TX and OSD) and 3300mAh 3s packs with no issues at all. With this set up I can stay airborne for 40 minutes and still land with 30% left in the pack on a windy day (Getting the glide set up right combined with the stabilizer and flap system is the key) it is stable even in windy conditions (probably maxing out at 20mph) and can obviously be hand-launched and landed almost anywhere (very tough blow-molded plastic fus)....and mine is only the 1600mm version, the 2 metre version would be even more capable.

I suspect you are right, both fixed wing and multi-rotor would provide the best all round set up and it's suprising how cheaply it can be done.

Which do you reckon is the best platform FPV Raptor, Skywalker 1680, EPP-FPV or a glider (i.e. Phoenix 2000)?

Got an AXN clouds flyer as part of a deal of FPV stuff I bought (at a ridiculously cheap price) - but it flies crap imo.

Not too bothered about not being foam as I very rarely crash nowday's. Hate trying to launch wings too.

Cheers,

Si.

[Shaunie]

SAR multicopter thread here **LINK**

Shaunie.

[Chris Jones 7]

Posted by Tony Read 2 on 24/10/2013 13:21:58:

I do know however that I am probably not experienced enough/. Good enough to be the one to do it. But thank you.

Don't sell yourself short. I still reckon 'Fly Quads The Chris Jones Way' is a great idea. LOL

Right - been having a think about it and I'm gonna have a go at it! I figure by the time I get to the advanced stuff someone somewhere better qualified/ more experienced/ better at video editing will realise they can do it better and take over! But in the meantime I want the video editing practice!

I'll start a new thread when I get going but first two videos will be quad set up then flips. I'll make a start today before the big winds arrive!

No laughing!

[Ernie]

Hi guys,

In, France,I see they are using a multicopter to destroy the nests of 'frelons'........or killer bees as the press call them

ernie

[scott cuppello]

Which do you reckon is the best platform FPV Raptor, Skywalker 1680, EPP-FPV or a glider (i.e. Phoenix 2000)?

Got an AXN clouds flyer as part of a deal of FPV stuff I bought (at a ridiculously cheap price) - but it flies crap imo.

Not too bothered about not being foam as I very rarely crash nowday's. Hate trying to launch wings too.

Cheers,

Si.

Thing is that they all have their pro's and con's, Skywalker is probably the better all rounder, especially if you are not keen on wings but then the FPV Raptor is the better glider. Stabilizer makes it academic to a degree in terms of how well they fly but for me either the Skywalker and FPV Raptor have the edge because they are designed for the job, .

You could go non-foam like the the Raven UAV airframe (as used by the US Military) but I think you have to be pretty confident with regard flying sites when it comes to composite/balsa hand-launch models, I would expect the Raven to penetrate better and have a better wind tolerance than foam obviously but foam has that all round tolerance to abuse.