Malaysian Airline

[Codename-John]

I don't know if you`ve seen the news but Tragicly a Malaysian Airlines 777 has crashed in Ukraine, there are reports it was shot down with some sort of missile. The Malaysian Airlines 777 looks like this

Co-incidently This

Russian President Putin`s personal plane was also due around the area on return from Brazil, and in fact their flight paths crossed near Warsaw although at different times, flying at nearly the same height approx. 10,000 feet. At that height I`m assuming they would look very similar.

Coincidence or Possible Assassination ?

Edited By Codename-John on 17/07/2014 21:50:40

[Martin Whybrow]

The report I heard said the Malaysian Airlines plane was at 10 000m, so thats 33 000ft.

[Codename-John]

Yes sorry was a typo, Metres not feet

[avtur]

This is a dreadful tragedy whatever the cause, it is being reported that there were 6 Britons among the 295 people on board, all of whom have died.

Evidence is growing that the aircraft was shot down by a ground to air missile. Several military aircraft have been shot down in this area in recent days, commentators are beginning to suggest that this passenger aircraft may have been targeted by mistake.

Several international airlines have already changed their flight plans to avoid flying over this troubled area, sadly that was not the case for this flight.

What a tragic loss of innocent lives.

[Daithi O Buitigh]

It's fairly certain at this stage that the ethnic Russian separatists in the Donetsk region were responsible. They made a claim that they had shot down a Ukrainian troop transport in the area at that time. The following can be found by using google:

"The forces of Donetsk People’s Republic assumed control of A-1402 military base," the militia's representative said. According to him, it is an anti-aircraft missile forces facility equipped with Buk mobile surface-to-air missile systems.
Read more: link

Separatist leader Igor Girkin, aka Strelkov, wrote on vkontakte (since removed):  "In the vicinity of Torez, we just downed a plane, an AN-26. It is lying somewhere in the Progress Mine. We have issued warnings not to fly in our airspace. We have video confirming. The bird fell on a waste heap. Residential areas were not hit. Civilians were not injured."

 

Edited By Daithi O Buitigh on 18/07/2014 03:29:30

[Mowerman]

The loss of this aircraft is a tragedy and conjecture about the possible cause can only be counter productive at this point and can only add to the distress of relatives.

Please, leave it to the professional crash investigators.

[Codename-John]

But since then -

The militias fighting in eastern Ukraine against the government troops have no weapons systems that could have shot down the Malaysia Airlines plane on Thursday, the General Prosecutor of Ukraine, Vitaly Yaryoma, stated citing a military report submitted to President Petro Poroshenko.

Considering the high altitude the MH17 was flying, it could not have been taken down by a portable anti-aircraft missile or anti-aircraft cannon, which the Ukrainian militia have been using to attack Ukrainian military aircraft.

Earlier there were reports that the militia had captured a Buk missile launcher, which could have done it, but Kiev insisted that the system was out of order and could not be repaired by the militia.

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

The video footage from the crash site, can be seen the dead body ... horrible .. never, until now no one has APPROVED such a display.

 

''Something is cruel in the kingdom of Denmark ''

W. Shakespeare

Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 18/07/2014 08:46:21

[Codename-John]

Apparently a newspaper over here has published pictures of dead children`s passport photos from the scene etc also, nothing is sacred in the pursuit of newspaper sales anymore

[Olly P]

298 persons lost - 3 more than originally thought due to infants who don't have dedicated seats.

UNSC special meeting this afternoon.

Hearts are with the families of the lost.

[John F]

Posted by Codename-John on 17/07/2014 21:49:17:

Russian President Putin`s personal plane was also due around the area on return from Brazil, and in fact their flight paths crossed near Warsaw although at different times, flying at nearly the same height approx. 10,000 feet. At that height I`m assuming they would look very similar.

Coincidence or Possible Assassination ?

Edited By Codename-John on 17/07/2014 21:50:40

The thing is, there is nothing more stunningly stupid than arming rebels with anti aircraft missile systems knowing that the other side also has anti aircraft systems and then flying over it yourself. It simply would not happen.

There is nothing as good as rumour and speculation.

""Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane has not been flying over Ukraine for a while," another source told the Gazeta.ru news portal."

My thoughts are with the families of those affected and I hope this goes some way to stopping this ridiculous war.

[Codename-John]

Posted by John F on 18/07/2014 10:54:51:

Posted by Codename-John on 17/07/2014 21:49:17:

Russian President Putin`s personal plane was also due around the area on return from Brazil, and in fact their flight paths crossed near Warsaw although at different times, flying at nearly the same height approx. 10,000 feet. At that height I`m assuming they would look very similar.

Coincidence or Possible Assassination ?

Edited By Codename-John on 17/07/2014 21:50:40

The thing is, there is nothing more stunningly stupid than arming rebels with anti aircraft missile systems knowing that the other side also has anti aircraft systems and then flying over it yourself. It simply would not happen.

There is nothing as good as rumour and speculation.

""Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane has not been flying over Ukraine for a while," another source told the Gazeta.ru news portal."

My thoughts are with the families of those affected and I hope this goes some way to stopping this ridiculous war.

Where do you know for fact that anybody has armed anybody with any weaponry, reports were that rebels may have captured some missiles from a Ukrainian base, yet as I posted above the Ukrainians themselves are stating they were inoperable ? or are you just speculating also ?

[John F]

I was not being critical of you, John, please don't think I was.

The info about arming of rebels has come from internal security briefs which we read, (I am in the RAF) which is not bogged down by politicians rhetoric or guestimates and speculation in the news.

There is already plenty of evidence to show Russian military vehicles and tanks crossing the border and later being used to assault Ukranian positions along with Pro-Russian civilians being armed with new Russian light and heavy weapon systems.

[Pete B]

It's all speculation until some independent investigators are given unfettered access to the scene and the FDR/CVR - and that isn't going to happen any time soon.... if at all

I feel for the Dutch - a small country but with major loss of life in two aircrashes in four years. Very sad for all concerned.

In the meantime, we'll just have to listen and watch the propaganda war continue....

Pete

[Codename-John]

Posted by John F on 18/07/2014 11:47:34:

There is already plenty of evidence to show Russian military vehicles and tanks crossing the border and later being used to assault Ukranian positions along with Pro-Russian civilians being armed with new Russian light and heavy weapon systems.

There isn't though, even the US cannot provide credible evidence to show there are actually any actual Russian forces in Ukraine, The OSCE are there monitoring on the ground and they have stated there are no Russians etc, The whole countries weapons were provided by Russia and USSR at different times when they were the same country / allies, same as these BUK missiles that apparently were used to shoot down the Plane, They are Russian made weapons sold to Ukraine for their use, the same as we provide weapons to countries.

Look at ISIS in Iraq, were told they have heavy weaponry including US and Our weaponry seized from legitimate sources we supplied, yet a bit further up the world were told this isn't possible and that they must have been provided by Russia.

In Israel, they can shell a group of kids playing on a beach and call it self defence, yet if Assad bombs actual armed rebel forces in his country he is a brutal dictator that must be removed.

The hypocrisy of it all is astounding.

[Erfolg]

I think John makes some valid points.

It is of course a terrible event. For the many families affected, tragic.

Was it an accident? Probably not! Almost certainly a deliberate act by some people, although if the separatists a mistaken identity, anybody else, rather sinister. Particularly as the separatists do not appear to have any aircraft.

I can not believe the call from Cameron for a those responsible being put on trial for war crimes. Particularly the then UK Government and the west in particular made no calls for the officers and crew of the Vincennce to be tried for any crime what so ever, although I think the USA eventually paid out compensation. Talk about hypocrisy.

I also have reservations about it is OK to overthrow a government which does not sign a trade deal with EU, and give support to the rioters and street fighters, because the army was used to suppress the fighting. On the other hand it is not the same when the new government turns its troops on separatists. I guess it is what the Diplomats of the British Empire called "the big game".

Yet after all the politicians and vested interests have sharpened their axes, with all the double standards, it remains a terrible event for all those closely related.

Edited By Erfolg on 18/07/2014 14:22:55

[Paul Marsh]

Looks like it was shot down. The plane broke up at 33,000 feet, falling over 9 sq miles. Also there is footage of the actual missile strike and the debris falling down, just after the explosion.

 

Edited By Paul Marsh on 18/07/2014 20:37:54