WW1 biplanes

[dave cuming]

hi i have recently built a DB tripehound (fokker) lookalike? and as i have never flown a multi wing model before, was wondering if i need any tips or ideas in actually flying the thing!!! i normally fly limbo's, hype's, purple haze's electric etc but have heard some horror stories regarding biplanes and triplanes, any tips would be appreciated!!

regards

dave

[Former Member]

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[David Ashby - Moderator]

The narrow track undercarriage means they can be a little tippy on that axis so just be ready to stop a wing from digging in during take off or landing.

The drag from the extra wing/wires etc. can be noticeable but nothing to worry about for the average flyer - fly and enjoy

[Bob Cotsford]

if the motor dies, remember to keep the airspeed up or it will glide like a barrel of bricks (edit - sorry Eric, just saw your response!).  Don't even think about trying to stretch the glide.

[Flanker .]

I have a Puppeter which is a nice compromise between scale and practicality. The main thing is to pratice flying slow with a bipe, it is easy to fly too fast if one is used to "sport" aircraft. With TWO wings and lots of drag the stalling speed can be very low, which makes landing easy, but I have seen many have trouble trying to land too fast due to not realising how slow they can go. Your rudder is your best mate on landing and take off to avoid catching a wing tip on the deck. Try to avoid cross wind action. WW1 bipes do and did not like cross winds. Mine has scale ish power so you may find that you need hight for aerobatics - use the energy of the model here. Roll rate can be slow too. Try first rolls climbing after a dive for speed, at good hight too!

Have fun, I do! F 

[Simon Chaddock]

Do not be too dismissive of the performance of WW1 aircraft, full size or models.

Yes the drag tends to be high but the lower wing loading means plenty of lift. Their achilles heal was always engine reliability which should not be a problem for a model. For example the low engine speed and big efficient prop on the Fokker Triplane meant it could reach 20,000 ft on just 110hp, not many modern light aircraft can match that.

As Flanker says cross winds are a no no. WW1 airfields tended to be a just an area of grass with a wind sock in the middle, you ALWAYS took off and landed into the wind.

Some manoeuvres (loops and stall turns) a WW1 type biplane will do nicely, just don't expect it to knife edge between the pylons!

[Flanker .]

Camel & Spit Check this link out it is very intersting vis avis ww1 stuff.

[Former Member]

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[Tim Mackey]

Yeh, nice vid

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Very interesting and what about the total oil loss system too.....

[Simon Chaddock]

A great video and it certainly shows what it was like handling a WW1 type on the ground. Notice how the Camel rocks as the mag is blipped - 160hp on and off - ouch! Or the "missed beat" firing using the "reduced power" mag settings. I bet the Camel pilot kept a wary eye on that huge Merlin prop not far from his left side!

The amazing thing about the monosoupape (single valve) configuration is that it worked as well as it did - a sort of 2 stroke crankcase induction system but in a 4 stroke cycle. A good description and diagram here.

http://www.enginehistory.org/Gnome%20Monosoupape.pdf

[Flanker .]

Er Timbo me old china. Did you delete my last post ? Viz Biggles n Castor oil stains on Camel pilots  left shoulders ? If so can you tell me why, I was on thread and did not write anything rude.

[Tim Mackey]

Nope...not me Flanker

[richard cohen]

Dave,  I,ve just finished my  SE5a and was just as concerned about flight and ground handling as I have never flown a bipe or other slow ww1 aircraft but on a balmy evening this week it had its maiden flight  with our club chairman at the sticks (cheers to Eddie Barker from Swindon Model Aero Club) and with a few slight trim changes it was declared a peach to fly. I took it up again and with good rudder control on take off and turns( not a problem as i learnt to fly on taildraggers) it flew slow scale manouvers beautifully. Landing on the narrow wheel base does need care as Flanker previouly said, because it can tip easily ,but all in all I have to say there can be no finer flying than a 4 stroke powered WW1 fighter on a calm still evening when all the 2 strokes have landed and you have the field to yourself . You just need to imagine the flanders trenches and poppy fields and you go back 90 years !

Sorry, getting a bit too poetic there  !

rich

[Former Member]

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[Tentpeg]

I can recommend one book 'Winged Victory' by V.M.Yeates. He actually flew the machines, Sopwith Camels included and the book gives you a real insight as to what it was really like in the early days of combat flying.

Apparently the pilots from WW2 would pay up to one months' wages for a copy of this book as they found it so inspirational.

Regards,

Tentpeg. 

[John Bunting]

Cecil Lewis, in his book "Saggitarius Rising", said that in his opinion the Sopwith Triplane was the most pleasant WW1 machine to fly, and that with suitable settings of the throttle and tailplane trim, it would go on looping indefinitely, hands off.

[Tim Mackey]

sounds like some of the modellers I know

[Jack Bagley]

Once built and flew a Sopwith camel ( RCME) by Fritz Mier Paton in the seventies, it was a pleasure to fly on a Merco 61, and Kraft radio. Had it for about three years, then sold it on. Next was a Boddington Pup, again a good balanced flyer with an Enya 60, and Futaba radio. It finally gave up the ghost from being fuel soaked after almost continuous use over two years!

I love bipes, slow, draggy and just cool! Jack

[John Bunting]

I still have an APS 1/8 scale Sopwith Pup, originally a free-flight design, which I built in 1968 and flew with single-channel radio, escapements, and a Mk 1 Frog 100 engine turning a home-made scale-size prop, !2 x 4, at about 4000 rpm., giving just enough thrust to fly. I am just putting in relatively new radio, servos, and an AXI motor.

[Flanker .]

How nice that so many are ejoying their WW1 bipes! My missing post concerned Biggles who cut his teeth on Fe 2bs before converting to Bristol fighters. He then moved on to Camels and sported the famous stained left shoulder flying jacket (sidcot) from the total loss oil system that the rotarys had!

[John Bunting]

There's a good article on Biggles in the Review section of last Saturday's Daily Telegraph (17 May). In the nineteen-sixties, after a Unesco survey (!) found that he was the world's most popular schoolboy hero, Biggles ran foul of a few politically-correct goons in the race relations industry, one of whom called for public libraries to destroy their copies of Biggles books. In response, Neil Clark, the writer of the article, quotes this passage: '"While men are decent to me I try to be decent to them, regardless of race, colour, politics, creed or anything else". Hardly the credo of an Alf Garnett in flying goggles'.              

[dave cuming]

Thanks guys for all your info and tips  i feel a bit more confident now! i'm just waiting for the ideal opportunity (i think its called good weather!!!) the tripehound is all set up and ready to go so here's keeping my fingers crossed!! LOL

[Flanker .]

Great dave!  Just remember to avoid any cross wind stuff. Open her up gently  and steadily to full chat with FULL UP on the old elevator. Release the up steadily once she is moving, this will lift the tail, don't yank her up, let her roll tail up till she lifts. DO double check your Cof G for any tail heavy stuf now. Nose heavy is ok , but if she is tail heavy she my bite on lift off. I reckon you'll have a ball. Just remember to get her good n high then find out just how slow you can go, it'll stand you in good stead when trying to land. With all that wing you'll be amazed at the low stalling speed.And do not forget dear old Manfred Von Richhofen. "it climbed like the devil!" Yours will too. Once these bipes have flying speed they climb on the merest whisper of throttle. The main trouble that I have with the pup is getting it to sink on calm days, it just want to fly man.

Best of luck with her my friend. Flanker  PS READ BIGGLES FLIES WEST. Wow what an adventure! I read it to the wife n kids last summer. During a beach read I noticed that all those around me were quiet and listening too with baited breath ! lol F

[Former Member]

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