Sleep patterns and shift working

[avtur]

My working life to date spans some 42 years, during that time I have had a multitude of jobs but the one common factor is that I’ve never worked 9 - 5 Monday to Friday.

I’ve worked in a variety of different industries, I’ve been hourly paid on the clock, I’ve been a public servant and I’ve been ‘middle management’ in the corporate world. But none of these positions ever required me to work a straight m-f and 9-5 (whatever my contract of employment stated!)

I am certainly not one of those who must have 7, 8 or 9 hours sleep per night. Even now in semi retirement my sleep pattern is poor (well by some peoples measure). I worked a full 25 years of 24 -7 shifts.

Now, the idea of going to bed before midnight is a none starter, normally it’s around 1am perhaps a little later. Even when I was working full time and had to be up at 4am for a flight or a long drive across the UK I would find it difficult to be in bed before midnight.

I probably average 4-5 hours per night, though after several long working days I might occasionally have a night of 8-9 hours sleep.

I’m just wondering what sleep patterns other folks have … I’m hoping I’m not the only one with insomniac tendencies !

Ooops ... just noticed its 4am !!

[Old Geezer]

It IS possible to establish a "normal" sleep pattern, but generally speaking it's not going to happen overnight. (Sorry couldn't resist that one!)

From the day I graduated until I got to my early sixties I was on night call 3-4 nights out of 7 and call-outs occurred most nights, early starts and late finishes were just part of the game too, and to a lesser extent I shared your inability to establish a normal sleep pattern. Then I sold my business and I started a part-time job with no nights on-call - and my wife took me in hand. It was really quite straightforward. No heavy meals after about 8pm, TV was switched off at 10pm (no hardship, we all have recorders don't we), no laptops in the bedroom - even to check email or Model Flying! The important thing is to establish a routine, avoid medication at all costs, it's not the answer as it just substitutes one problem for another. If you need settling before bed, a warm bath can be relaxing. The important thing is to establish a routine.

If you find you can't sleep after 40 minutes or so - warm drink and half an hour with a book, not the TV or a laptop - they are far too likely to gee you up, rather than relax you - then back to bed.

With my wife's support I now get to bed at a sensible time, sleep like a baby for 7-8 hours a night, and feel a different bloke. It didn't even take that long - just establish a routine that suits you and stick to it. Good Luck.

[Phil 9]

the 8 hour sleep per night is an average. Some people need more some need less. It is better to listen to your body than watch the clock to determine how much sleep you need. Margret Thatcher famously got by on 4 hours sleep per night (but that was not strictly true)

The 8 hour sleep pattern is not the natural human sleep pattern anyway. It is a result of the industrial age. Before that people's sleep was normally taken in two shorter chunks.

[TheFlyingCrust]

Hi Avtur. Exactly the same problem for me. I spent the last 15 years of my working life doing full rotation of a 3 shift system (NHS staff nurse) and my sleep patterns are exactly as you discribe. Gurth is right in what he says. I've recently found out from a sleep expert that establishing a routine is essential to getting back to "normal".

The problem is the light emitted by modern LCD devices (phones, flat screen TV's, cellphones) acts as a stimulus delaying normal wind-down to sleep. They emit a lot of blue light. Old TV's and filament lamps don't. Energy saving does have unexpected down sides.

Shutting down these devices early certainly helps, I just need to be a bit more strong willed!

Ian

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

My sleep is definitely in too short a chunks!

BEB

[Rosco]

I'm in he same boat as you avtur only not for as long. Shift working for the last 13yrs has messed up my sleep when I can sleep 'normally'.

I find it easier to go to bed later and wake up earlier than to go to bed early and wake up later.
I used to work on an afternoon shift prior to my current shift work and getting home after midnight and then trying to get to sleep was near impossible. Nowadays I work 4 on (2x10 hr days and 2x14 hr nights) and then 4 off but during the 4 off my sleep is broken and not good restful sleep

Edited By Ross Piantedosi on 30/12/2014 11:41:28

Edited By Ross Piantedosi on 30/12/2014 11:45:14

[..]

In the early 90s I worked in computer hard drive manufacture . There were all sorts of shift patterns dependant on what product you worked with. The whole day/night shift thing was very interesting, some just couldn't do it.

The most lucrative pattern was a 4 shift 24 hr 7 day week rotation , this was not only the best payer but once every 4 weeks you ended up with 5 days off meaning that you only needed 2 days from your leave for a week in the sun.

But this pattern was a reall breaker & some despite the enhanced shift bonus just crumbled into gibbering wrecks lol.

[Paul Marsh]

I'll never work shift, although the money is usually better, the body wasn't designed to be messed around like that. Sometime I do site work, where I work through the night, did that for a week, but was knackered, but doing the work, could be only done at night, such as changing a switchpanel, doing mods to it, such as Morrisons on a Sunday night, where the only time the power can go off is usually Sunday evening, but has to go back on 3am latest.

The day when you go back into "day" affects me the rest of the week, and changing shift takes a few days to recover. Also it's been proven to promote aging, if done regulary, due to lack of sleep.

[david 7]

After 40 years of shift work, the most I get after a 12 hour day is 6 hour's , and 4 to 5 after a night shift, does not matter what I do I can't sleep any more, I'm not worried about the lack of sleep ,but do think about if I have caused any damage to the old body after all this time ,just been made redundant so hope I can get back into normal pattern.

[Mark a]

I do shift work and have done for many years. My current pattern is 12 hour shifts days and nights weekly rotating and I only have to work one Friday per month and with every 5th week off its not to bad and with holidays I get 14 weeks off per year.

Mark.

[ben goodfellow 1]

i used to do 6 12hrs and a 7hr on a sat , then next week after 5 12 hrs night shift sat off and 8 hrs on the sunday then back to days.. i honestly dont know how , never could sleep ,or know how i had time for anything.. i will also say this was on an open cast mine in the cold ........ahhh memories

[Chuck Plains]

I've never done a night shift, unless I was at a party . I've done early and late shifts in manufacturing workshops, (6am start or 10pm finish) And had night call outs when I was a tyre fitter. When I was younger I could get away with 6 hours sleep or less every day. Recently (at 61 yrs old) I will sleep from just after 11pm till just before the alarm goes off 7 hours later. But given no alarm and having got up at 6.30 the previous day, I will sometimes sleep 9 hours straight unless nature calls in the middle of the night.

But many experts say that sleep is essential for good long term health almost as much as a healthy diet. And it's likely that an inability to sleep is indicating that your lifestyle AND diet are to blame.

Edited By Chuck Plains on 30/12/2014 12:38:29

[Cuban8]

Tried shift work for a month (6-2, 2-10, 10-6) found night working intolerable, unable to function past about 2 am so working and diagnosing problems on live machinery was either going to kill me or possibly somebody else. Tried eating a meal at 3.30 am and felt ill for the rest of the week - as for the hour's drive home, I was an accident waiting to happen. Thankfully, I was able to arrange a shift swap (my night for a mate's late) and that worked out ok for the rest of the duration of the contract. I take my hat off to those who are able to work nights, but I found it impossible, certainly as part of a weekly rotation.

[Chuck Plains]

Here's a video that carries the right message about sleep, in my opinion.

Durianrider on How Much Sleep Is Really Healthy ( Warning! F word in use! )

A durian is a type of fruit that grows in SE Asia.

This guy swears like a trooper. He's a long term vegan and a pro level athlete in both cycling and running, and he wins races.

Also, just for amusement, Benjamin Franklin invented daylight saving hours 150 years before any nation implemented it, and he says we should get up and go to bed with the sun. One of Franklin's hobbies was economy, and he wrote this letter (apparently tongue in cheek) to the editor of Jounal de Paris after he retired there.

He was a genius, scientist, inventor and, as most of us know, a kite maker/flier.

 

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 30/12/2014 17:42:05

[J V R]

I'm much the same as Avtur, 37 years in transport ( bus driver ). I'm at my best when I sleep for around 4-5 hours when I have an early start getting up at 0330Hr but when I work late turn getting home after 0100Hr I tend to have 7-8 hours sleep. I used to do 7 nights once every 2 months which totally messed with my body clock so I gave that duty up. Now I'm semi retired working 2 days in the first week then 3 days the next week my sleep pattern has not changed much and I find it hard to go to bed before 0000Hr. The first thing that I did when changing to part time work was to set an alarm for 0915Hr on my mobile for days off, and cautioned work not to call me before that time if they needed me to work overtime. After 37 years of getting up at silly 'o'clock I'm going to enjoy my spare time.......

[Stuart C]

All my working life, I remember hating the sound of alarm clocks. Too much to do, no chance of getting to bed before 12:30am. Always a zombie in the morning drinking coffee after coffee, finally getting into top gear round about 11.00am.Things got really bad when I had to jet around the world into different time zones and have to swap languages almost daily. When I retired, I really looked forward to slowing down and getting 8 hours sleep - but it hasn't happened; that's to say the slowing down bit has, but the sleep seems to come in 4 hour blobs twice a day! Even after forcing myself to stay awake for 24 hours, I will awaken after only 4 hours. Sometimes I wonder if that bottle of amyl nitrate, that I spilled in my bedroom as a kid, has had some lasting effect!

[Chuck Plains]

I really hope that all of you guys are consulting your doctor if you aren't getting more than 4 hours a night. All I can say is that we can't always expect changes with our bodies to arrive quickly. Habitual work/sleep rituals can hang around for months.

Hmm.

Maybe some can benefit from background sounds to help with relaxation. I should use it more often than I do, but I often forget.

Please set you normal sound on your device to 50% or less to begin with, before listening to any sound file on the internet!!

Here's one of my own diy relaxation sounds. No, it's not a scatalogical reference.

Brownwave 15mins on my Freesound.org page which has various diy sound files created by me using Audacity, and a short explanation of how white, red, brown and other sound types were developed.

Freesound does NOT have a volume control on the playback of files.

A relaxation favourite of mine on Youtube is Johnnie Lawson, though there are usually adverts at the start of his files. Another interesting one is Lucid TV who may have some strange titles, but does offer very long listening times.

Feet up and relax guys.