What did you want to do as a kid, when you grew up, what would you chose in hindsight ?

[eflightray]

As a kid I wanted to be a Sheriff, I already had a double barreled pop-gun, it would shoot both barrels full of gravel, (buckshot), about 2 ft..

Not having a lot of choice when I started work, (at 15), I went into engineering. Progressed through a few engineering companies, electrical and electronic.

Would I have changed anything ?, probably not, I would have missed some interesting things, and could be just as easily considerably worse off than better off by now, (retired).

Enjoy what you've got while you've got it, but protect your health as you may actually reach old age, and it's more important than you may think while young.

 

Edited By eflightray neath on 02/04/2015 15:09:14

[Erfolg]

John, zero hours contracts have been around for perhaps a few centuries, in this country.

It did not start under Labour, certainly well established as an issue by the time the coalition came into being.

Most bar staff, have worked with the system for some years. I have seen the way of working in engineering for many years.

What is different, is that the practises have spread into many fields where people do not want to work in such as flexible way, wanting fixed hours. It also seems to be a term used where there are fixed hours, although very low hours, where they would prefer many more.

The first I became aware of the issue, was returning by bus after dropping my car for a MOT. A woman at the bus stop was clearly distressed as her hours had been cut at a local four star hotel. The time was just after the Northern Rock debacle.

My two daughters have both had zero hours contracts when working for McDonalds, Debenams, and Victoria Wine. At the time it suited them, as they were both studying at the time for their "A" levels. One was asked if she wanted to become a trainee manager, so not necessarily without some merit.

I will say I was totally against the sole business aspect of most. I also have misgivings about the general expansion of the concept.

I suspect the solution is the creation of quality jobs, which requires good education, where the job has a meaningful skill or intellectual content. What will continue the erosion of the UK and its productivity is government created or trained non jobs, protected and funded by tax payers.

I think banning them is difficult, partly because there is no one definition and also some areas of the economy could not function without flexible working. Yet I do not like the wide spread use of such a way of working.

[Cuban8]

Posted by john stones 1 on 02/04/2015 13:43:57:

Take a look around you C8 plenty are there already and have zero hour contracts

John

I know John, and mightily cheesed off about them I could get!

Fair enough, casual labour has been around for ages but has tended to be on the margins and quite limited in scope. I fear that it's grown into something that seems to be more generally acceptable, although it's usually those that are benefiting from the cheap labour as and when they need it, who will sing its praises the loudest. Flexible working is a great euphemism, especially when all the 'give' is in the direction of the employer.

Where I used to work as a well paid maintenance engineer on the shop floor, I've seen men and women operators (casuals) in tears after they'd been told they weren't needed and should go home. The employer had promised them some hours but had changed their mind over night. Not only did the workers lose their hours, it had cost them bus fares as well - all because some comfortable numpty in the office couldn't be asked to phone around.

When I retired a few years back, I thought I I'd do a bit part-time, a regular 8 or 10 hours a week would be enough to keep me in glow fuel and Lipos. What a joke - nothing but ZHCs, where they wanted you in at the drop of a hat for an hour or two as it suited them. I don't need the work so didn't bother, but I feel sorry for those that are trying to get some stability into their life. Fat chance on a ZHC.

[Erfolg]

Unfortunately much of our economy is now low value added, that can be done by almost any one.

It is easy to blame the employers who are making use of this aspect.

Perhaps the blame should be more reasonably placed at the door of politicians and educationalists, who year after year announced yet greater educational attainment by those in school. Who have now left education with a very poor education, in competition with many from overseas who are better educated.

The other aspect again lies at the door of politicians of all hues, who for years disparaged industry and manufacturing. At best propping up industries for political gain. Rather than providing a environment where investment in manufacturing capacity and development of innovative products or services.

Many young people today, find themselves in the same position I did in the 60s, poorly educated, no great ambition or motivation, as I did. I was extremely poorly paid in my youth, although my employer paid all of my educational fees. In that era, only 5% were fully funded, the rest of us in further education up to and including (block release) degrees had to find the fees themselves.

Life is hard today, as it was in the 60s for many of us. Unfortunately the world does not owe the UK a living, although the Greeks think differently. Unless those who run bars etc., can make it pay employing persons on what we now call ZHC, they will employee no one, or will not bother trying to build a business.

I do not like much of ZHC, yet the way out is adding real value to what is done, making peoples skills and the need to use them, a valued commodity that the employee is able to negotiate from a position of strength. But non of this will happen tomorrow.

I wonder how many of todays youth just wants to be famous and rich, without working, oh, dear, that was probably me in my youth.

 

Edited By Erfolg on 02/04/2015 17:59:46

[kc]

Cuban said " Who in their right mind would have predicted that China, at that time a country of farmers and Red Guards resplendent in their 'pyjamas' and waving 'little red books' would reinvent itself so powerfully."

The reason the Chinese improved their lot is because they got their population under control by limiting the number of children! That's a lesson Africa, the Middle East etc etc still needs to learn. Living conditions decline when there are more people available, and only improve when there is a labour shortage. The problem is the religous leaders who encourage and even force over population to make their religion seem stronger.

However getting back to the topic. It is gratifying to see that everybody else had a varied career path too.. Frankly hobbies are an antidote or a complete change from work. The worse your work satisfaction the more you need an engrossing hobby to keep you sane. Aeromodelling is such a complete hobby and needs such a great variety of skill to participate fully that it satisfies needs that your job may not.

[Dave Hopkin]

When I was a kid (in Birmingham) every factory had a "Situations Vacant" board outside and they always had vacancies on them, I hardly ever see a factory now never mind a "Situations Vacant" Board - somewhere along the line the "City" became more important than anything else - It used to be that the Stock Market and Banks existed to support industry, now the market is simply upmarket gambling and speculation - So business simply does what it needs to do to preserve its share price, frequently at the expense of what is good for the country in the long term - jobs are sent to China etc because manufacturing costs are 50% cheaper there - that may be good for the individual company but its disasterous for the country - every job exported means one less tax payer, one more welfare claimant, one less consumer spending money - As its the tax payer who ultimately picks up the fall out costs from off shoring I frequently wonder why there is no tax penalty levied against the company off shoring

[Erfolg]

Dave

Many of us share your frustration, yet, it is not my money, if others choose not to invest in the UK, it is because those with money see greater opportunities elsewhere.

We need to provide an environment where the UK is the favoured destination for investment.

Here in the NW, even in the 60s we have not been blessed with jobs going spare, other than the equivalent of ZHC work.

If you take the view it is fair to rob Peter to pay Paul, do not be surprised if Peter debunks else where.

I do agree I did see modelling as a way of escaping from the very real pressures of work, where playing a straight bat was the order of the day. In modelling I could try whatever I liked, no consequences.

In some respects I do hope my two daughters do decide to leave the uK. As the opportunities in the UK for my grandchildren, seem to be increasingly limited. Daughter No1 and son in law continue to have job offers from other countries, I sense it will not take much now for them to say we have had enough of the demands of the National Health service. Of course there could be an up side, in that we may be able and willing for us to go to, although i could stay in contact via the Internet. Yes so much has changed

[Fylingdales Flyer]

I had always been fascinated by ships and the sea,but was not attracted to military discipline, so I joined the Merchant Navy as a navigating officer cadet in 1973 at the age of 18.

My cadetship, with the old cargo liner company, Ellerman City Liners was the most enjoyable time of my life and I saw much of Africa, India, North America and Australia with periods of academic study at Plymouth School of Maritime Studies in between.

In 1977, just after I had qualified and obtained my Second Mates certificate, the Merchant Navy started to fall apart and companies like Ellermans started disposing of ships as fast as they could, whilst investing in other areas of business such as breweries and road transport.The british fleet reduced by 75 percent during this time.

A couple of redundancies saw me working for Reardon Smith Line of Cardiff (one voyage only, then the ship was sold to the Greeks) and then Denholm Maclay on the North Atlantic ( Icebergs, pack ice and fog) for two years until, once again, we handed the ships over to the Greeks.

The last six years of my seagoing career were spent on Nuclear Fuel carriers, bringing spent fuel back from Japan and sometimes Italy to France and Sellafield.

Realising that i didn't relish spending the next thirty years doing this, and wanting to see my two children grow up, I came ashore and went to work for the Ministry of Defence in a completely different role. I hope to retire in the next couple of years.

My only regret is that the Merchant Navy that existed up until the mid seventies disappeared so quickly. Had it continued to exist I would probably have stayed, however I wouldn't change anything. I've always lived on the beautiful North Yorkshire coast and continued my connection with the sea by saiing.