Avios Sea Fury/Riff Raff

[Erfolg]

I have started the assembly of a Avious Sea Fury/Riff Raff, and have immediately run into issues.

The first is that the circuit board on the wing has 4 servo lead connections, the purpose of some is pretty obvious.

1. Gear
2. Flap
3. Aux, what is this for?
4. Aileron.

With respect to the flaps, how much movement should I be looking to achieve? Which leads me onto, how much flap for taking off and how much for landing. Which then begs the question, does this ideally need linking to the elevator, for compensatory off set?

The other aspect that bothers me a little, or is that a lot, which is the weight, it seems pretty heavy. How have others found actual flying of the model?

[Trevor Crook]

Erfolg, my son has the 4s naval scheme version, I think the Riff-Raff racer has a 6s setup?

Anyway, his is a really nice flier, albeit he has had some issues. The u/c isn't glued in very well and his first hard landing pulled the gear out. Generous application of epoxy have fixed this.

The scale props work well and look great, but are very fragile - both his have broken, so it now flies on a 2-blader.

With regard to your specific queries, the Aux channel on the navy version releases the drop tanks, I'm guessing the racer doesn't have these.

I can't give exact figures for flap deflection, probably about 20 degrees for takeoff and 60ish for landing. I don't think he mixes in any elevator, but the landing approach with full flap is nose down with a fair bit of power on, just like the real one.

As I say, work through the issues and it's a nice flier, the weight is not an issue. They have certainly been available at a good price. Let us know how you get on.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Good questions Erf.

1. Aux - well, err auxilary - in other words any other function you would like. Lights maybe? Folding wings???!!!

2. Because the Reynolds number for a model is very different from full size (several orders of magnitude different) the flow regime over the wing is very different. Most models are still well in in the laminar/transistion regime. Most full size aircraft are well into the turbulent flow regine. So the flow dynamics are different and flaps work differently. It really depends on if you want a "scale look" or a "scale-like flying effect". If the former as a general guide (not specific to this model) about 20% for take off (if any) and 40-50% (for landing) would be about right in many cases. If the later then 40-50% for take off and "barndoor" levels for landing - ie 70-90% - would be desired!

3. You'll only know if you will need elevator (and if so how much and in what direction) when you try the flaps out. Usually they cause nose-up reaction - but not always! They can (if you are very lucky) be neutral. They can even, rarely admittedly, cause a nose down moment. So its up to three mistakes high and "suck it and see"!

BEB

[Tim Tolhurst]

+1 for the undercarriage, mine (Navy scheme) came out on the first landing on one side, took out the flap servo on the way

Replacing the flap servo isn't straightforward either, the cable is well and truly buried so requires surgery, and the servo must have a slow circuit in it as a standard 9g is too fast, so both have to be replaced. (no avios spares at hobbyking i can find?)

Flaps are great, they work well - in the absence of instructions I set mine up as far as the would go without buzzing, about 60-70 degrees, and half that for the mid position on my tx - no problems in flight at all, no elevator mix needed as far as I can tell. I have a very steep descent onto my strip because of trees and it floats in on full flaps very slowly, quite scale really. Its a heavy bird for a foamy - I fly mine on 5000mah 4s and it balanced perfectly with a 8 minute flight taking 2700mah to top back up, so performance has really been pleasing.

Aux is indeed for the drop tanks supplied with the navy version, and they work well to.

I've done the FMS (Snoots Sniper) 4 blade conversion, much better (prop blades and spinner from Wheelspin) as the first noseover took out the five blade avios hub and three blades.

Love mine anyway, great looking ( and flying) model, more like a balsa model than a foamy.

Tim

[Erfolg]

Ah, I thought i had no replies, having apparently forgot to tick the notification box. So thanks are in order.

I am setting my Riff Raff up using a std. Rx battery.

I am a little alarmed, although i have little experience with a ARTF which comes with servos and most linkages installed and assembled. With my two PZ models, I just connected the Rx up and all the surfaces were bang on. No adjustment of any type being needed. In this case they are all miles out.

I am assuming that is how the model comes and you have to adjust everything?

As I am far more interested in a well behaved model, I think that i will set the flaps max at something very modest compared to you adventurous hooligans. Probably nearer to 45 degrees, then about half.

I am also starting the process of deciding on the battery, being a Riff Raff the lipo will be about 50% heavier. I would be very, very interested in the weight of your Lipos and how far forward they are relative to the firewall.

I actually wanted the Sea Fury, being late, they had all gone. Not particularly intrested in speed for speed sake, the lower Kv and a 6s, rather than a 4s has been a disappointment to me.

I am guessing there is no sensible option but wait for the UC to be ripped out, before epoxying?

Feed back is appreciated

Edited By Erfolg on 20/06/2016 17:12:26

Edited By Erfolg on 20/06/2016 17:13:19

[stevan Lewis 1]

I just gently eased my retracts out by rocking back and forth. I used gorilla glue, not epoxy. Gorilla glue is a bit more flexible and I think absorbs shocks better. I did this before flying to avoid damage to the plane in the event of a failure on landing, I fly off a tarmac/concrete runway which is not very forgiving!

Steve

[Erfolg]

Stevan, when you say Gorilla glue, I think you are referring to their Polyurethane glue. As we all know that Gorilla is a brand name for a range of adhesives.

I have become a convert to the Gorilla polyurethane adhesive, not because it is any better than the other brands in strength etc. What it has that other well know brand names seem to lack, is shelf life, it seems to be just about usable up to 2 years. Other brands , seem to go off after about 6 months.

[Erfolg]

Ahhhhhrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being somewhat of a dinosaur I still use a Futaba 8fg. It is a problem on this model, as the ailerons are driven via the circuit board. On the 8fg, this means having to select a 1 aileron wing. the two aileron wing throws up a menu for flaps, alternatively I could use Camber change.

I am at a loss as how to tackle this issue, any ideas?

The gear/UC threw me. Move the switch, gear goes down, move the switch, the gear goes up, other than the two smaller doors do nothing. If I had hair I would have become bald, tugging at it in frustration. Yet to those that wait, all things come, or in this case, the samll doors either shut or close. It is a long delay though.

Now back to the flap issue.

[Chris Lee123]

Does the Riff Raff handle grass landing OK or is the landing gear a bit to fragile?

[stevan Lewis 1]

Yes I mean the polyurethane glue. works fantastically on foam models. The delay on the retract doors is a while after the gear is up. I cant remember how long however.

Steve

[Erfolg]

Stevan, it is for ever, so long that even knowing there is a delay, I start to think, the servo delay has broke, then suddenly the doors start to move snapping me out of my deliberations.

I have looked at the propeller and must agree that by inspection, with a good dose of flexing the hub, it seems to be both brittle and weak. The same can be said for the spinner assembly.

I suspect I will change to a two blade and aluminium spinner. I am intrested as to the size of prop that has been sucesfully used to replace the 4 blader.

At present I am having some problem with the flaps. They are not working when using the extension lead. Yet a servo plugged straight into the Rx it works. Also plugging the extension lead into a servo tester they work. At present i cannot get my head around this one.

[stevan Lewis 1]

This thread on rcgroups http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2230946 has alot of information on the seafury. I have bought a dynam 3 blade Bf109 prop and spinner ( good value and seems sturdy) but have yet to fly the model so this is only based on information gleaned from this thread. Post number 2023 has all the information on the improvements people have made. I have also canted the undercarriage legs forward to help prevent nose overs.

Steve

[Erfolg]

I really appear to have hit a brick wall with the Flaps. I just cannot get them to work with the Rx.

They work fine when driven via a servo tester, using the extension lead. A servo works fine when the extension lead is plugged into the Rx and the Tx is used to move the servo. Yet plug the extension lead into the Rx, then it does not work, the servos appear to be completely dead.

Any ideas?

[stevan Lewis 1]

My flaps work fine, I use a spektrum dx6. I can only suggest you start a new thread addressing just the flap issue and a radio expert may have an answer. It may be a futaba thing?

Steve

[Trevor Crook]

Erfolg, is there a typo in your last post? You say "A servo works fine when the extension lead is plugged into the Rx and the Tx is used to move the servo. Yet plug the extension lead into the Rx, then it does not work"

I suspect you mean they don't work when an extension lead is used into the receiver, but they do if the servo is plugged directly into the Rx. However, driving them via an extension lead from a servo tester works.

This is a puzzle. You have eliminated the extension lead by using it with the servo tester. Have you another receiver you can try?

[stevan Lewis 1]

Hi Erflog, do you mean when you try to operate the flaps via the multiplug board on the wing?

Steve

[Erfolg]

Stevan, Yes I am trying to use the multiboard to drive the flap servos.

Trevor, I have not expressed the problem very well.

• With an extension lead between the Rx and the board the servos do not work. Not a flicker.
• If I use my servo tester, using the aforesaid lead then they work
• If I use the Rx, with the extension lead and a spare servo, the servo works.

To me logically the first set up should work, yet does not. I have tried allocating a different channel, I have even swoped extension leads about.

I realply do not get it, what does the servo driver do, that the Rx does not?

[stevan Lewis 1]

Try to trace the flap servo lead anddisconnect it from the board. It is possible I have done it. Connect dirctly to the servo and eliminate the board as the problem.

Steve

[Erfolg]

Stevan, I guess you are suggesting to "Y" lead the two servos.

[stevan Lewis 1]

That is a possibility but I meant just to check that the problem isn't in the multiplug board. Others have found issues with it but mine is OK.

Steve

[Erfolg]

The "Y" lead did not work as such. Which did indicate that the problem was not the circuit board, which I had guessed was another form of "Y" lead circuit.

What I have discovered I think is that the servo arms are at the extreme of their travels, and stalled against the foam of the wing.

I guess the first thing to do is to dial in a very much reduced travel for the arms. Then see where the neutral extreme position is.

[stevan Lewis 1]

Now you mention it I had to remove my servos and reposition the arms for the flaps to give full travel.

Steve

[Erfolg]

Stevan, i am at a loss to understand why the flaps do not work.

I had thought that the servo arms were at the extreme of their travel and stalled. Apparently not.

Yet I do know that the servo driver does get them to work. I have tried to set up the flaps as aileron, by assigning channel 5 as a aileron, defining J1 and T1 as the switch/control.

Tomorrow, when I have some time I will try driving the Flaps via the aileron lead.

At this point if it works, or does not work, I do not know what it tells me. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

I have being toying with the idea of swapping the as built servos with replacement servos. That is after checking that they will work via the board edge connections.

To think, that just two days ago I thought that my main issue was going to be which size lipo. Then my next concern was swopping to a 2 blade prop and purchasing a suitable replacement spinner.

I have also considered just flying the model without flaps.

Edited By Erfolg on 22/06/2016 23:33:06

[Erfolg]

I believe that the issue has been narrowed down to one of the flap servos.

I do not think I can do anything about the problematic servo. On this basis it is presently my intention to take one of two options

• To live with no flaps
• To replace both servos.

I do not know if the use of flaps makes flying the model during the take off and landing phases easier or safer.

I could do with some feedback on how difficult it is to change a flap servo, and how it is done. So far it appears that the model has not been built in the factory with any thought to maintenance.

The experiences of those who have this model and its close variants would be appreciated, both on flying and servo changes.

[Trevor Crook]

I should be able to give you feedback soon - my son is giving me his Sea Fury in exchange for my Dynam Hurricane! He did strip the gears on a flap servo when the u/c collapsed on the first landing, but happily had another servo from the same factory so he extracted the servo without disturbing the wiring, swapped the broken gear and glued it back in. To replace the whole servo, it would be easiest to cut the lead near the servo and solder the wires from the replacement to the existing lead. Bear in mind that the servos fitted are special slow moving ones - could be best to replace them both with a matched pair, and do the slowing in the Tx if you can.

He told me he only uses a bit of flap for landing as he finds that easiest - full flap gives lots of drag so needs some throttle management.

I'll give a flying report when the weather has improved.